Job Discussion Forums

[BS.Dos.]

Hi there, first post - be gentle.

I intend to head East at some point this year, hopefully in the next few months just as soon as I've gained my TESOL certificate. Obviously, my feelings are somewhat mixed at this stage, swinging between genuine excitment and nervous trepidation. I've spent the last few days trawling through all the threads hoping to gain an insight from those in the 'field' and while I've undoubtedly gained an insight into the nuts and bolts of teaching and living abroad, I can't help but feel slightly more anxious about it, due in part to some of the comments etc that I've read here.

Would I be right in thinking that a teaching post in Japan is not nearly as good as it used to be, and that maybe I should give serious consideration to applying for a post in say, China?

I'd welcome any comments from those who are in a position to comment on the changing nature of TEFL within Japan over the last few years.

[User N. Ame]

First of all, healthy scepticism is... well, healthy. So good on you for entering the Japan ESL scene with your critical and sceptical eyes open. You're way ahead of most of the Nova idealists who arrive only to see their Shangrila expectations shattered.

If you don't have an MA or TESOL + lots of experience, the plum university posts will be out of your league, but I guess it never hurts to apply.

If you are not coming in on JET Programme, that leaves you at the mercy of the cut-throat dispatch ALT companies and eikaiwa firms (eg, NOVA, GEOS, and so on). So the ballpark pay you can expect is about 250,000/month. Very unlikely you'll see any flight subsidy, or housing assistance.

There are good jobs outside of these above options, but you need to to your homework, and your cause would be greatly improved if you were in Japan. If you go with one of the above options, I suggest you focus on one or two companies that appeal to you and do a thorough search of this forum, and Gaijinpot.com. If you view one of the above options as a mere stepping stone, that's a good way to approach it. You are not legally bound to complete your contract if you decide you want out a couple months after you arrive. Your visa will still be good. You will still be free to sell your labour elsewhere, but be sure to have enough cash on hand to survive a couple months if you chose this route.

In my opinion, if I were a serious TESOL student (and I'm not), I would try, if possible, to raise my qualifications to MA level before coming, otherwise, you are going to be mired in the 250,000/month ghetto for time immemorial. And by the way, the qualifications issue does not only apply in Japan, but all countries where you might consider teaching ESL.

As for your question about now vs. then, some of the other long-time ex-pats will be able to better answer that, but I do have close friends who came to Japan to teach in the early 80's and late 80's, and they were not only able to cherry pick the jobs they wanted fresh off the plane, but they were rolling in the dough. I don't think you see that kind of windfall anymore, unless you have the qualifications to earn it.

But you've made the first important step: entering the game with a sense of pragmatism and sceptism.

Good luck.

[Glenski]

TESOL certificate is not needed to get a job here, nor to be able to teach. Your first hurdle is being eligible for a proper visa.

Do you have a bachelor's degree or at least 3 years of provable work experience? (work visa)

Are you British, Canadian, Australian, New Zealander, Korean, Irish, German, or French between the ages of 18 and 30? (working holiday visa)

Coming "in the next few months" may mean the start of summer vacation for the mainstream schools (which will already have hired for the year, which begins in April). Hiring slows down in other sectors during that time, so you need to plan ahead, and make contacts before you leave home.

Have you read all 3 of the FAQs?

[BS.Dos.]

Do you have a bachelor's degree or at least 3 years of provable work experience? (work visa)

Yes. BA (Hons)

Are you British?

Yes

18 and 30?
No. 37.

Have you read all 3 of the FAQs?
Well, I've browsed through them. My post wasn't really looking for specific answers, rather the broad strokes of the current working climate.

Coming "in the next few months"
Well I was rather hoping early Autumn sort of time. My course wraps up in June so, if I set the wheels in motion now...

TESOL certificate is not needed to get a job here
Evidently. However, while I appreciate that many don't have any recognized teaching certificates per se, I've no previous teaching experience to fall back on and I'm not the type of person who could really 'wing' it if you catch my drift. Besides, the TESOL has cost me somewhere North of 250,000 JYN, money I like to think was well spent.

[markle]

[sallycat]

despite the fact that it's no longer boom-time in japan, plenty of people still do come, enjoy themselves immensly, and make a decent amount of money. the streets are no longer paved with gold, and it might take a while to find a really good job, but if japan is where you want to be, it's still well worth coming.

[Glenski]

[Glenski]

sallycat said that people still make a lot of money here. I just wanted to point out that for entry level work, salaries have been dropping in the past 2-3 years. What used to be a standard unshakable salary of 250,000 yen/month is now waffling between 200,000 and 220,000 on average. Yes, average. That means you may even see salaries being offered LESS than 200,000 amounting to bare subsistence wages.

So, people still make a lot of money here? Well, who, sallycat, and how? That point deserves some qualification.

[zorro (3)]

Glenski,

Do Westgate operate without a license?

As most people on this forum know, I worked for them and would recommend a stint with them to see if Japan is where you really want to work. The contracts are 3 months and they have a programme that starts in September - could be good for your timing.

Good luck.

[BS.Dos.]

@ Zorro (3)
To be honest, I've not heard that much about Westgate, just the other 4 behemoths. Out of those, rightly or wrongly, only GEOS have pricked my ears up, but I'd imagine that all these large players are pretty uniform, give or take a few fringe benefits. I'd welcome any enlightenment you can throw my way regarding Westgate. Basically, I've got a couple of weeks over Easter to get my CV sorted out and to start putting things in motion. Although, putting all my hopes into a single company (GEOS as things stand) could end up in dissapointment. Would I be right in thinking that they don't recruit outside of Japan? (Westgate that is)

@Glenski
Your comments were both useful and comprehensive. Thanks.
Ultimately, one of the big four is the route I'm probably going to end up taking. Obviously, once I've cut my teeth so to speak, maybe other options will open up, but I think the general security these places offer is more appealing to me than the risks associated with just turning up and scratching around for work. Had I been 10/15 years younger then I'd probably be prepared to take a few risks.

I suppose in the long-term, I need to be thinking about an MA if teaching in Japan is something that I'm seriously going to apply myself to, which in all likelyhood, is probably going to be my ultimate career choice, though whether that will be a career that's spent entirely in Japan is too early to say. Choices ranging from a PGCE, or an unrelated MA are still options I'd like to consider, but, and it's the mother of all buts, I'm not getting any younger and at 37 I imagine that I'll already have a few years on many of my peers.

Either way, you guys seem to have forged very interesting careers out for yourselfs, albeit on the back of some hard and no doubt labourious academic work. The fact that you put time an effort into sites like this speaks volumes about you and your commitment to your chosen profession, which I'd like to add, you're obviously a credit to. Good for you.

[nickelgoat]

.....

[BS.Dos.]

@nicklegoat
LOL
The only fames you're currently fanning are the flames of my increasing scepticism regarding Japan. I'd not even thought about Korea. Either way, I'm going to have to arrive at a decision of sorts sharpish. I'm pretty slackish and naturally indecisive at the best of times so cracking this nut, which incidentally, is rapidly transforming itself into becoming a very large and heavy concrete coconut, is going to be a tough one to crack. But hey, maybe I'm being over cautious and that I should just get on with it.

I'll look into Korea and any questions I can't find answers to will probably come your way.

[Brooks]

I agree. I just got back from Busan, and with the strong won, free housing, and lower cost of living, I would say don`t overlook Korea.
I think in Japan times are getting tougher.
I have a Japanese wife, so I am not going anywhere.
I almost convinced her to move there next year but she has her reservations.
For teachers here, I think things are getting more stressful. It is getting harder to make a decent living.

[BS.Dos.]

That confirms it. Call the fire brigade, this baby's out of control.

Am I blind or is there not a dedicated Korean forum?

[Glenski]

BS.Dos,
I'm not one to wave a flag praising EFL in Japan. It has its negative sides as well as its positive ones. You need to weigh them both against what other countries have. Consider these 2 things, though.

1) You seem to want to get into the game a few years earlier than me and later than most, and at this moment you have no teaching credentials (much like most newbies your age and younger). You have to start somewhere, and it's going to be the bottom rung. Want to know about Westgate? Do some searching here. Plenty has been written. Want to know other things? Read the FAQs more thoroughly and ask specific questions instead of trying to get the atmosphere of TEFL in Japan.

2) Korea is not the wonderland you might think. Some people obviously love it, and quite frankly, I envy the fact that many get housing paid for. However, the Korea forum here is locked for a reason (You'll find it in the yellow area at the very top of the page; FAQs are available without entering the forum itself, I think, and you'd do best to read them all). Plenty of complainers and flamers and whiners in it. You need special permission, I think, to join. Also, a more serious note is that in Korea your visa is tied to your job (unlike Japan), so if you quit or get fired, you lose your visa. Lastly, people's accounts may vary, but I think the general consensus is that Korea is much more xenophobic than Japan. Ask around what that means exactly, especially from those who say it's not that much to worry about.

You don't have to get into the Korea forum anyway. Plenty of info right on the Japan forum to compare the 2 countries. Here are a few samples.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=44166&highlight=alt+dispatch+licence
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=44581&highlight=alt+dispatch+licence
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=45433&highlight=alt+dispatch+licence