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battleshipb_b
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 189
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: Management & Mismanagement in the ME |
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Working in the M.E. makes one think a little more clearly about morality.
If we Americans come out here to work, we should behave appropriately by honoring local laws and customs. We should not do things that are considered wrong or immoral or offensive to the people we work with and teach. We Americans are always getting condemened, not only for the things we do but also for the things we don't actually do. Too often many teachers who come out to the M.E. don't respect local values and traditions. Then everyone thinks all of us are like that. Their bad behavior reflects badly on the rest of us who do respect and honor the culture we're working in.
When a westerner is appointed to run a department in this part of the world, he or she should be of good moral character. I think this is very important. People who appoint directors or heads, etc. should choose carefully. The people they appoint should be selected for their experience, their training, good management skills or potentially good management skills, their integrity, their interpersonal skills, their character, their problem-solving, their fairness, and their morality. It is not a good idea to appoint people who have problems - whatever the problems may be: personality problems, identity problems, drink problems, social problems, etc. People who have such problems usually do not make good managers, they are unable to see the global picture and usually view everything through blinkers. We Americans have so many problems in this part of the world that we don't need to have people with problem behaviors appointed to run departments. That reflects badly on us and puts more limelight on us. We're having enough trouble in the M.E. with our own bad leaders back home and to appoint inept leaders to run departments out here just reinforces the ideas that we don't know how to select good leaders.
Most of us Americans here just want to get on with our jobs, get on with our lives, and cope as best as we can. People with problems create more problems for those of us who just want to do our best and be our best.
If a person breaks down a dunny door in a fit of rage, would this person be considered a good leader? Look at our president. Look at all the bloopers he's made and continues to make. He doesn't know how to be a good leader, he's not a moral leader.
When someone is selected to be in a management position, many things need to be considered. First of all, can the person do the job? Is the person the best possible person for the job? Is the person efficient and competent? Does the person have good interpersonal skills? Does the person respect and appreciate his staff? Does he or she show his respect and appreciation? Is the person approachable? Is the person both fair and fair-minded? Is the person above moral reproach? Being in a management position myself, I've had to ask myself such questions. I try my best to do a good job, to treat my co-workers fairly and respectfully. I would never fire people for no reason. That's unacceptable practice. But unfortunately, this practice is still rampant in the M.E.
Bush has given us enough problems in this part of the world. Let's try to change some of these negative images. I'm proud to be an American but not proud of some of my compatriots in the region. I want us to regain the respect we once had in this region. It is an uphill battle but it is important to try. Only through mutual respect, tolerance and understanding can some of the problems in this region be solved. We managers also need to show mutual respect, tolerance and understanding. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| I'm proud to be an American but not proud of some of my compatriots in the region. I want us to regain the respect we once had in this region |
And your first step towards this is to make the same posting on six separate forums.
"honoring local laws and customs" presumably doesn't apply to netiquette |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 175
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I think that battleship might be somewhat too harsh in his judgement of Americans. Other Westerners have also acquired negative reputations in the Middle East. Years ago, at the Higher College of Technology in the UAE, for example, the senior administration was often referred to as"The Canadian Mafia". Many potential teachers complained bitterly about discriminatory hiring practices in this institution. I don't know how valid these complaints were, but they were prevalent.
In Kuwait, the Brits were notorious for their alcoholism. At the Military School of Languages in the 1990s, some of them used to arrive at work reeking of alcohol.
The Americans are often seen as bigots and whiners, and are easily targeted because of their current international posture.
However, I think that all these pictures are stereotypes and conceal the fact that there are many fine Canadians, Brits and Americans working in the Middle East. Unfortunately, the "bad apples" are the ones who tend to project the most powerful image. |
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Queen of Sheba
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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While everything Cassava has said may be true, I think the OP still has valid points as well. I don�t think it applies to Americans alone, but most Americans have limited experience traveling and working with other nationalities. In addition, some Americans, along with other "Westerners" do come to the Middle East with a mission to free these "poor, enslaved women." This activist attitude seems to be popular for female teachers who come to Saudi Arabia, until they figure out most of these students travel more, have more money and status than they have ever had. I wonder if this observation then creates jealousy and resentment. I wonder if any other female posters could comment on this idea of the activist mentality, or the latter, the possible jealousy factor. Do you think these would attribute to any of the outbursts and irrational behavior you have had in the workplace?
I have to agree with the OP, some Americans and others North America and Europe are embarrassing, if you hail from their country as well. Bad managment is one of the factors, and so is bad attire for that matter. Why don't people bring several changes of clothes with them when they travel abroad to work?
Last edited by Queen of Sheba on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004 Posts: 409
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Management & Mismanagement in the ME |
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| battleshipb_b wrote: |
| If a person breaks down a dunny door in a fit of rage, would this person be considered a good leader? |
If a tree falls in the forest...This is surreal! Love the use of 'dunny' though. I didn't know Americans used it.
I'm not sure such a person would make a good leader but they should definitely avoid mentioning the incident in their CV. |
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bje
Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 527
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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In addition, some Americans, along with other "Westerners" do come to the Middle East with a mission to free these "poor, enslaved women." This activist attitude seems to be popular for female teachers who come to Saudi Arabia, until they figure out most of these students travel more, have more money and status than they have ever had. I wonder if this observation then creates jealousy and resentment. I wonder if any other female posters could comment on this idea of the activist mentality, or the latter, the possible jealousy factor. Do you think these would attribute to any of the outbursts and irrational behavior you have had in the workplace?
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I don't know about KSA, but in Kuwait and the UAE I can't say I've noticed it. Many women certainly deplore the circumscribed lives their female students seem to lead, yet also enjoy their so-called 'western' status, for what it's worth. This means licence to shout at service staff, have facials and manicures, and get clothes made cheaply.
Do 'activism' and jealousy concerning ability to travel and financial and social status go hand in hand? I would expect that activism would refrain from falling prey to such pettiness- I may be wrong...
Last edited by bje on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| This means licence to shout at service staff, have facials and manicures, and get clothes made cheaply. |
This goes on in KSA too, among both genders and those of just about any "Western" nationality. Seems like the Gulf brings out the inner colonist in quite a few people. |
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Queen of Sheba
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| bje wrote: |
| Do 'activism' and jealousy concerning ability to travel and financial and social status go hand in hand? I would expect that activism would refrain from falling prey to such pettiness- I may be wrong... |
I am not implying that these two go hand in hand. Activism is rampant in Saudi Arabia, however ill received it may be. The jealousy part is more speculation as to why some teachers get angry, and act overly irrated at students, accuse them of being spoiled, and never have had to work for anything. Beleive it or not things like this have been tossed at the students, and it seems like irrational behaviour motivated by other factors to me, |
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scot47

Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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The existential 'Angst' of being a USAnian in the Middle East in 2007 ?
Quite frankly I have bigger things to worry about ! Would you like to hear about the difficulties of being an almost-retired Scot ? |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Quote:
This means licence to shout at service staff, have facials and manicures, and get clothes made cheaply. |
This goes on in KSA too, among both genders and those of just about any "Western" nationality. Seems like the Gulf brings out the inner colonist in quite a few people.[/quote]So paying $10 to some third world tailor to make a shirt is colonialism, whilst paying $50 to a western boutique, which has paid $4 to get the shirt made in the Third World is ethical consumerism!
And we all know nobody ever complains about poor service in the UK or US, but treats service staff with exquisite respect whatever the standard of the service proffered.
And we should really have read the addendum to the 1807 abolition of slavery that also banned facials and manicures. |
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bje
Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 527
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| So paying $10 to some third world tailor to make a shirt is colonialism, whilst paying $50 to a western boutique, which has paid $4 to get the shirt made in the Third World is ethical consumerism! |
Nobody said it was. Take a chill pill and go back to the telly. We're sounding a bit acerbic tonight...
I see what you mean now Q of Sheba. There may well be envy involved, plus the annoyance of being regarded as a variant of service staff in the classroom. |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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So paying $10 to some third world tailor to make a shirt is colonialism, whilst paying $50 to a western boutique, which has paid $4 to get the shirt made in the Third World is ethical consumerism!
And we all know nobody ever complains about poor service in the UK or US, but treats service staff with exquisite respect whatever the standard of the service proffered. |
I'm not from either the US or UK, nor do I pay for clothes in dollars, but whatever. Maybe you're too busy using sixth-form 'sarcasm' on the net to have noticed the arrogant ways of so many expats, but once again, whatever... |
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007

Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 2684 Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Management & Mismanagement in the ME |
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| battleshipb_b wrote: |
| People who appoint directors or heads, etc. should choose carefully. |
So, what happened if these people who appoint managers are themselves not competent and do not have the required skills on how to choose good managers?
| Quote: |
| The people they appoint should be selected for their experience, their training, good management skills or potentially good management skills, their integrity, their interpersonal skills, their character, their problem-solving, their fairness, and their morality |
What does 'morality' mean in your understanding?
Mr Battleshipb_b, I wonder how a candidate is selected on morality? And I wonder if you can enlighten me on how to judge between good morality and bad morality?
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| I want us to regain the respect we once had in this region. |
I can't remember the US had a respect in this region!
Since the occupation of Palestine by the Israeli which was backed by the British and the American, this region is still in trouble, and will continue in trouble until the Palestineian get their freedom, land, and dignity!
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| he's not a moral leader. |
Moral leader? Don't you see that Mr Bush was appointed by the people of the United States of America, and it is up to the people of the US to change their leaders as they wish!
BTW, do you know why Mr Bsh is not a moral leader?
I will tell you.
Mr Bush, during his sleeping, and in his dream, received a fax from God ordering him to invade Iraq and liberate the people there from Sadam in the name of 'democracy' and 'new world order'. Also, Mr Bush received another fax from God ordering him to oppose the congress for their vote on the withdrawal of US soldiers from Iraq. SO, by this, Mr Bush is thinking that he is the purifier who wants to purify the world from the axis of evil. That's why, I think, Mr Bush is not a moral leader!! |
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Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004 Posts: 409
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Management & Mismanagement in the ME |
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| 007 wrote: |
What does 'morality' mean in your understanding?
Mr Battleshipb_b, I wonder how a candidate is selected on morality? And I wonder if you can enlighten me on how to judge between good morality and bad morality? |
Good questions 007. I had similiar thoughts when I first read the silly OP (the point of which still eludes me.) I think the 'deviants' that he mentioned in a previous post are the ones he thinks should be kept out. |
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Van Norden
Joined: 23 Oct 2004 Posts: 409
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Management & Mismanagement in the ME |
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| 007 wrote: |
| BTW, do you know why Mr Bsh is not a moral leader? I will tell you. Mr Bush... Also, Mr Bush ... SO, by this, Mr Bush...That's why, I think, Mr Bush ... |
Stop flogging this dead horse 007. |
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