Job Discussion Forums

[amity]

Since I have read several posts mentioning the poor appearance some western women present while working in Saudi Arabia, I want to ask what a woman (in particular) should wear. I was planning on bringing a couple of suitcases full of mid-calf to ankle length A-line skirts and 3/4 to long sleeved shirts, and no trash bin liners at all.

Am I on the right track? Might I be invited to a banquet where I would need something fancier, or would fancy duds just be a waste of luggage space? Are loose pants worn by women? Would I ever need jeans at all? Is it possible to have clothing seamstress-made at a reasonable price and quality? These things are what I would have advised a woman to bring to teach in Kuwait, so am wondering if the same clothing would be appropriate for KSA. Many times I saw Saudi women who were very fashionably dressed, and some of the young ones even wearing miniskirts underneath their abayas. Still true?

[Cleopatra]

I would say that you'll need the same range of clothing in KSA as you would elsewhere. That is to say, you'll need work clothes, leisure clothes, special occasion clothes, casual clothes - or not, depending on your lifestyle. As you have noticed, Saudi women wear whatevere they want under their abayas, and believe me, modesty is not neccessarily a priority!

For work, assume that you won't be allowed to wear trousers at all: although there are a few exceptions, most women's colleges require all students and staff to wear skirts which reach at least to mid-calf, and tops which cover at least to the elbow and don't reveal too much 'decollete'.

If you are invited to a wedding, you'll need a ballgown - Saudi women are very competitive and like to take these opportunities to show off. You don't have to do the same, but do be aware that appearances are very important to Saudis. If you get invited to other social gatherings by Saudis (this is rare but it does happen) you should also try and dress up a least a little.

Among younger Saudi women, 'casual chic' and designer jeans are the name of the game. The more traditional Saudis don't approve of trousers on women at all, but the shops are full of jeans and other trousers, so there's no reason you can't wear trousers too, at least outside of work. There are also plenty of reasonably priced dressmakers and fabric shops, so you'll have little trouble getting clothes made, if that's what you prefer.

[Queen of Sheba]

Cleo has said everything that has to be said on what kind of clothes to bring. The issue of dressing appropriately has come up, with me anyway, because I see some colleagues wearing socks with holes in them, Birkenstock-type of shoes, and mismatched clothing to work on a daily basis. While it should be up to management to discuss these things with the employees, often they are too busy to address it. I am not saying teachers should look as good as their students often do, but cant be represent our profession in a better manner? Professional attire is important in any profession, but I find that some people, when they travel abroad to work, in many professions, not just ESL, simply don�t care what they look like. I think they assume that they will leave soon enough, and wont see any of these people again, so who cares. Yet, it is embarrassing for the rest of us to be "lumped" into the same boat of "expats" with these ill-dressed people.

Similarly, some of these people probably dress like that everyday; it�s just that they don�t clean up their farmer John or farmer Jane image when they travel either.

[amity]

I doubt closed shoes and pantyhose are required on the job, right? I don't think I ever saw a Saudi woman wearing hose, or anything but sandals for that matter.

Would I ever need a swimsuit in KSA, or have I gone off the deep end to even ask? I am thinking of health clubs, or segregated pools.

Thanks ladies (or gents, if any want to answer).

[Queen of Sheba]

Are shoes a big deal? Not really. Its just that ugly shoes will get ugly responses from the fashionistas at work. Saudi women wear all kinds of shoes, and more covered than not, in the work place anyway. Once again, its time to take off the blinders and assumptions about KSA. They dress like we do, talk and walk like we do, and even wear shoes like we do. Normally their shoes are better than our colleagues as well!

[amity]

I am surprised to hear there are Saudi women in the workplace, actually.

[Cleopatra]

I think Q of S is right, Amity. You seem to have a lot of preconceptions about KSA and the lives of Saudi women in particular.

For the record:

Yes, there are lots of women's gyms, and some have swimming pools.

Yes, Saudi women wear all sorts of shoes, from grungy trainers to strappy sandals.

Yes, Saudi women work. In relatively small numbers, it is true, but who do you think staffs all those women's colleges, banks and 'health clubs'?

Regarding clothes, some Saudi women are shabby, others are very chic. In general, though, I would say that women (and men) here put more care into their appearance than their counterparts in most English speaking countries do. Books are definately judged by their covers here. Of course, you don't have to buy a new outfit every week, as some of your Saudi colleagues and students may seem to do, but do be aware that looking 'presentable' is crucial in a society where appearances count for so much.

[007]

I think the issue of dressing is more sensitive in women than in men. There are some people who exaggerate in their dress and give an exaggerated importance on how they look in front of the others (concerned with their fa�ade!). And this is valid regardless of race, nationality, ethnicity, professsion, etc.
For example there are some people, especially women; they wear dress like you feel they are competing for Miss America or for Miss ME!! And some they exaggerate in their make-up with gold plated teeth and tons of golded/silver pendants, rings, and bracelets like an armored soldier, and using all types of perfumes. And some dress nicely only for the purpose to attract the opposite sex!
Also, you will find some people nicely dressed and when you look at them you will think they are perfect, but in reality, in their inner soul, they are bad people and do not reflect their nice fa�ade!!!
I think a person should dress properly and modestly without exageration, with clean clothes and, most importantly clean heart and clean soul.

I have a feeling that I will get back-fire with some 'virtual' missiles from our respected ladies!

[Cleopatra]

No 'missile', just curious as to quite how you should be such an expert on the attire of women in this particular country.

[007]

[Cleopatra]

In other words, like just about every other man on this forum, you haven't the faintest clue about women's dress in this country. Thanks for confirming that.

The only interesting thing about your link is that it show a definite pattern emerging. MEMRI, the Torygraph, now the Daily Mail, lord help us! Whatever next? The Washington Times?

[Van Norden]

Speaking of proper attire and tabloids:

007 don't you ever crave / to appear on the front of the Daily Mail / dressed in your mother's bridal veil?

[dmb]

Van, just been having a read of the queen is dead.
http://staff.science.uva.nl/~jellekok/lyrics/queen_is_dead.html

From the lyrics, you'd think Morrissey had spent time in Saudi.

[007]

[Queen of Sheba]

I admit is interesting to see men squirming to impress me, making it all the more clear you would miss me if I was gone.

Mary Shelley wriote about about this predicament in Frankenstein;
"Life and death appeared to me ideal bounds, which I should first break through, and pour a torrent of light into our dark world."