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JRCash
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 91
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 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Advice |
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I am interested in the Middle East for two reasons, 1. the money that is to be earned there; 2. sunshine.
So I asked about safety. I can admit that my only insight into the Middle East thus far has been through Western media, so I apologise if my imagination of the Gulf is that of suicide bombers, al qaeda and kidnappings.
However, whilst I don't doubt that this is the case in some Middle Eastern countries, I don't believe that it can be true of all of them. I think the UAE, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Turkey and Egypt rank alongside Morocco and Tunisia as being reasonably Western-friendly???
So basically, advice;
1. Where would I be safe (ie no kidnappings like in Beirut in the 80s and Iraq more recently).
2. Where would be accepting of a European-style boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (we've been together a few years) and where would she be respected (ie have similar rights to me).
3. Where could I enjoy putting my teeth round a few brews without fear of having my teeth, tongue or hands cut off?
I know this may sound a bit ignorant but I've researched Europe and it doesn't seem a great place financially-wise, and at least I'm not completely sucked in by American/British media - I do believe not everywhere in the Gulf is like Iraq on a bad day. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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An answer to all your questions is Turkey, well one of the big cities. but it is not the Middle East. The winters are cold and wet. It's not as cheap as it used to be. Salaries range depending on your experience and qualifications. At Thrifty's favourite language school the pay sucks. At the better schools and universities they are quite reasonable.
food, culture, way of life, etc. Istanbul has a lot to offer...... still waiting on the first chip van though.
If you are after Arabic culture look elsewhere though. Turkey is more European than Arabic |
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JRCash
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
An answer to all your questions is Turkey, well one of the big cities. but it is not the Middle East. The winters are cold and wet. It's not as cheap as it used to be. Salaries range depending on your experience and qualifications. At Thrifty's favourite language school the pay sucks. At the better schools and universities they are quite reasonable.
food, culture, way of life, etc. Istanbul has a lot to offer...... still waiting on the first chip van though.
If you are after Arabic culture look elsewhere though. Turkey is more European than Arabic |
Was thinking Turkey would be leaning more that way, I have seen that the wage as per living cost in Morocco is good but that a lot of places don't pay you properly? |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
| If you are after Arabic culture look elsewhere though. Turkey is more European than Arabic |
Turkey is more Islamic than Europen. |
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Atassi
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 128
Location: 평택
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
| dmb wrote: |
| If you are after Arabic culture look elsewhere though. Turkey is more European than Arabic |
Turkey is more Islamic than Europen. |
The people are Muslim, but the government and many people are pretty anti-religious. It depends on how you see it, and where you are.
However, JRCash is concerned about safety. How religious people are has little to do with how safe you will be there.
JRCash, I would say that the only place in the Middle East you'd be advised not to go to is Iraq, and maybe Algeria. Lebanon also can always be attacked by Israel, as happened not long ago. Syria is very safe, although the pay is lower there than in the Gulf. Most all these countries have considerable amounts of westerners visiting and living there all the time.
Now if culture shock concerns you more than safety, prepare yourself. However, in what place can we avoid culture shock? Be prepared to be "kidnapped" by people wishing to have a cup of tea and chat.  |
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Atassi
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 128
Location: 평택
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Advice |
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| JRCash wrote: |
So basically, advice;
1. Where would I be safe (ie no kidnappings like in Beirut in the 80s and Iraq more recently).
2. Where would be accepting of a European-style boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (we've been together a few years) and where would she be respected (ie have similar rights to me).
3. Where could I enjoy putting my teeth round a few brews without fear of having my teeth, tongue or hands cut off?
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Regarding #2, you're better off getting married. Not that you can't do it the way you wanted to, but you'll have more respect if you carry marriage documents to any of these countries. |
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Bindair Dundat
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 1123
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Atassi wrote: |
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The people are Muslim, but the government and many people are pretty anti-religious. It depends on how you see it, and where you are. |
This is not accurate! The government is not an anti-religious.
The government is controlled by the Justice and Development Party (or AK Party), which is a pro-islamic party, and its leaders in the Government,like Tayiip Erdogan and Abdallah Gul are charismatic pro-Islamic. Whereas some of the top Generals in the Turkish Army are pro-secular. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Gul and erdogan charismatic? What makes you say this 007? |
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Sheikh Inal Ovar
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| He hasn't seen Erdogan falling off horses at theme parks ... and hasn't seen Gul full stop ... |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
| Gul and erdogan charismatic? What makes you say this 007? |
Well Dmb, The BBC made me say the above!
Dmb, if you do not believe me, I guess you will believe the BBC:
" Turkey's charismatic pro-Islamic leader
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, leader of the Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi, or AK) is one of Turkey's most popular politicians.........He is a charismatic politician from a poor background. ....
...Mr Erdogan's boss, a retired colonel, told him to shave off his moustache. Mr Erdogan refused and had to quit the job....
His background and commitment to Islamic values also appeal to most of the devout Muslim Turks who have been alienated by the state. ..
..He had publicly read an Islamic poem including the lines: "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2270642.stm
So, Dmb and Sheikh Inal Ovar, is BBC wrong when it described Erdogan a charismatic?? |
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Atassi
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 128
Location: 평택
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
| Atassi wrote: |
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The people are Muslim, but the government and many people are pretty anti-religious. It depends on how you see it, and where you are. |
This is not accurate! The government is not an anti-religious.
The government is controlled by the Justice and Development Party (or AK Party), which is a pro-islamic party, and its leaders in the Government,like Tayiip Erdogan and Abdallah Gul are charismatic pro-Islamic. Whereas some of the top Generals in the Turkish Army are pro-secular. |
Do you believe the leader represents the government? Is he the law? You speak with no understanding of Turkish history whatsoever. Reading an article from the BBC doesn't cut it. |
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Sheikh Inal Ovar
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
| dmb wrote: |
| Gul and erdogan charismatic? What makes you say this 007? |
Well Dmb, The BBC made me say the above!
Dmb, if you do not believe me, I guess you will believe the BBC:
" Turkey's charismatic pro-Islamic leader
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, leader of the Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi, or AK) is one of Turkey's most popular politicians.........He is a charismatic politician from a poor background. ....
...Mr Erdogan's boss, a retired colonel, told him to shave off his moustache. Mr Erdogan refused and had to quit the job....
His background and commitment to Islamic values also appeal to most of the devout Muslim Turks who have been alienated by the state. ..
..He had publicly read an Islamic poem including the lines: "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2270642.stm
So, Dmb and Sheikh Inal Ovar, is BBC wrong when it described Erdogan a charismatic?? |
Well, normally, if a writer for the BBC says something it must be true ... but I bet you this writer hasn't seen Erdogan falling off horses at theme parks either ...
If you define charismatic as 'possessing an extraordinary ability to attract', then you could say his actions described above were charismatic to those more religious Turks who appreciated his defiance of the authorities ... but you couldn't say he was charismatic to the equally large number of Turks who would rather have their countrymen obeying the authorities in such matters ... to them he possesses an extraordinary ability to repel ... so at best he is charismatic to only half of the country ..
But I'm not sure anyone in the world, not even the most ardent of followers, would describe falling off a horse at a theme park as charismatic ... unless they were misusing the word to describe the attraction of the paramedic rushing to his side ... |
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thrifty
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1665
Location: chip van
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
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food, culture, way of life, etc. Istanbul has a lot to offer...... still waiting on the first chip van though.
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They are going to get their first chip van. |
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kuberkat
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Oman
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: |
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JR Cash wrote:
| Quote: |
| 2. Where would be accepting of a European-style boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (we've been together a few years) and where would she be respected (ie have similar rights to me). |
Er. A cohabitational relationship will probably undermine your acceptance in any Islamic Middle Eastern country.
But what interests me more is the second part of your question. This depends entirely on what you would consider a right. Women have the same basic legal rights as men (except for Saudi Arabia, which your question probably rules out). But is it a right to take a walk alone, wear short sleeves in the middle of a desert summer, or talk to strangers (who may be of the opposite sex)? Nobody forbids a woman to do these things, but if she does, there is often a price to pay. The perception in the regional mind is that Western women spread like peanut butter, and it is very difficult to get past the stereotype. I presume it helps if a woman is married, but those of us who stay alone are presumed to do so for the most nefarious and Debby Does Dubai-worthy reasons. Also never forget that if a man, even a married one, succumbs to the feminine wiles of a woman, it is not his fault but hers. And women do not have to do anything provocative to cause this: if I had a dollar for every unprovoked come-on I've had in two years in the region, I could retire tomorrow. (Note that I am a pudgy, freckled, long-sleeved, trousered, Doc Martened geek decidedly not posturing as a sexual predator. You'd hardly say I was putting out.)
Granted, my experience is of Oman and the (non-glitzy regions of the) UAE. However, I have been informed by friends and colleauges from Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Tunisia that my scandalous habit of making eye contact with waiters and addressing them myself will cause that no good Muslim will ever fully respect me.
So are women here free? To their minds, yes, and that is what matters to them. Cultural perceptions can be enormously different. To me, their lives seem like prison.
And yet, I am still here, and hope to be for a few more years. There are many positive things in the region, and I am fully aware of their benefit. I am a free human being, but I certainly do not delude myself that I will ever be a free woman- by my own cultural standards- in this society. |
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