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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: 11 month work visa with 12 month contract |
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Some employers use "a tactic" of arranging 11 month work visas to their foreign staff on 12 month contracts. That usually happens when foreign teachers are on their second year contracts with the same company. Employers explanations to such practices are that they want to save some money 'cause a 12 month work visa costs a bit more than 11 month work visa.
Now, I wonder whether anyone has had such experience with their employers and what kind of "one month visa" to finish the 12 month contract have you got?
Peace to all kinds of intentions of Chinese employers
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cheers and beers to all hard working FTs in China  |
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HunanForeignGuy
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Shanghai, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Not true.
The term of the visa is NOT set by the PSB but by the documentation the institution submits on your behalf. There is a difference in cost between a six-month and a twelve-month visa. There is not a difference in cost between an eleven-month and a twelve-month visa.
The PSB allows any institution a 30-day latitude on either side of the visa -- meaning, it can start 30-days early and or it can finish 30-days late. Some PSB will actually issue two-year visas; some will not.
Your employer is playing serious games with you, EnglishGibson. |
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The_Messenger
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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It's no game... It is simply a trap!
Look at your options. With your visa 'expired' your school can renew BUT you can't leave and find a new job for two reasons; no valid visa, breaking the contract.
Your choice therefore is to sign a new, 6 or 12 month contract upon which they'll pull the same stunt again.
Clever (devious) people! |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Are we talking FEC or Residence Permit? My Res. Permit expires this year on August 31st - - 2 full months after my current contract ends. My FEC "started" on July 30th, 2006 and expires July 30th, 2007. What's a work visa? |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| There isn't REALLY a 12-month contract. At best it's a 11-month contract since FT's usually arrive in August and leave in July (in the case of public schools). At times it's a 10-month contract. Either way, how my FAO has explained to me is that the FEC expires from the day its application is received by the Education Bureau. This puts a bit of a wrinkle on me since I'd arrived at my current school a bit early (July 2006) while the fall term would not start until September 2006. As a result my FEC and my RPF expire in early July while my contract expires mid-July. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| I have a 12 month contract..and there is a 11 month visa..itis less money |
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bendan
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 739
Location: North China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| I have a 12 month contract..and there is a 11 month visa..itis less money |
Me too. I have had this for a few years now. In the beginning my visa lasted beyond my contract, but now it expires before the end of term. The school says it is less money for an 11-month visa. There's absolutely no other benefit for them. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| well in reality a school could use this as an Early out..that is ..an excuse to end the contract sooner and not be required to pay air fare or bonus..if there is a loop hole the Chinese will find a way to play it.... |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: |
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I see that there are some teachers in China on 11 month work visas with 12 month contracts.
This practice of chemployers does have to do with bonuses and air fare reimbursements, doesn't it?
| Quote: |
| I have had this for a few years now. In the beginning my visa lasted beyond my contract, but now it expires before the end of term. The school says it is less money for an 11-month visa. There's absolutely no other benefit for them. |
You are right that it is less money, but I think that you are wrong that there is absolutely no other benefit for them. The benefit of such practice is that your arse is their arse for that one month (if you do not wish to extend your contract).
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| There isn't REALLY a 12-month contract. At best it's a 11-month contract since FT's usually arrive in August and leave in July (in the case of public schools). |
Yes, you are right. This practice applies to private language centers mostly. And, they have those 12-month contracts.
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| Are we talking FEC or Residence Permit? |
We are talking about the work permit and that is either the Z Work Visa or that new sticker that's the Residence Permit for purpose to work in China. And, I think that you do need that FEC along the second one, even though you do not need the old Residence Permit booklet. That permits things've been discussed before on other threads.
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| What's a work visa? |
As I said above those "work permits" have been discussed before on other threads. I think that there are some provinces and cities where they issue those "Z" work visas. With those you still need that Residency Permit (booklet).
The point here on this thread really is that how long your work visa lasts and whether it lasts as long as your contract or not.
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| The term of the visa is NOT set by the PSB but by the documentation the institution submits on your behalf. There is a difference in cost between a six-month and a twelve-month visa. There is not a difference in cost between an eleven-month and a twelve-month visa. |
The term surely is not set by the PSB. Now, how do you know that there is not a difference in cost between the 11 month and 12 month work visa? Employers claim that there is a difference.
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| The PSB allows any institution a 30-day latitude on either side of the visa -- meaning, it can start 30-days early and or it can finish 30-days late. Some PSB will actually issue two-year visas; some will not. |
The problem is if the visa finishes 30 days earlier than your contract. It does look like there are some incredible double standards in the PSB offices around China though (as you pointed out too).
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| It's no game... It is simply a trap! |
That's exactly what I am thinking about.
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Look at your options. With your visa 'expired' your school can renew BUT you can't leave and find a new job for two reasons; no valid visa, breaking the contract.
Your choice therefore is to sign a new, 6 or 12 month contract upon which they'll pull the same stunt again. |
Well, I have been thinking about what kind of "ONE MONTH VISA" (to accomplish that current one-year contract) they can possibly issue. Or, does the employer go on and arranges yet another 11 month work visa over the current one, which will bring one employee to 2 months short on the next work visa..that of course considering one signs yet another one-year contract with the same employer and gets yet another "11 month work visa".
Has anyone on here ever got that "ONE MONTH VISA" (to finish that second-year contract) with such a scenario as I have pointed out on the beginning???
Chemployers seem to play games with us at times, don't they?
Peace to all chemployers as well as peace to their intentions
and
cheers and beers to our intentions of finishing our contracts as signed
_____________________________________________________________
I have always wondered what goes on behind the closed door of a CCP party meeting  |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: |
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I don't see ruses being resorted to in order to trick you into a renewal of your contract or out of your dues. IT's perhaps as simple as follows:
Your old visa expires before your duties are finished - this can happen for a variety of reasons such as:
- you arrived early and they applied for your RP right away before your twelve-month cntract period commenced.
- Your old contract was renewed several weeks before the old one expired.
The PSB issues you with a 364 day RP; if you get it approved on the 20th of March, it will run to 19th of March next year.
You can always get an extension with the help of your employer, to cover the remaining time and perhaps even some extra time for holidaying or touring China. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| The PSB issues you with a 364 day RP; if you get it approved on the 20th of March, it will run to 19th of March next year. |
not always...the PSB can issue a less than 364 day visa ..say 11 months..or less...and the cost to the institution is less...and in a culture of Business trickery..this kind of advantage can be turned into a disadvantage for the FT...after all how many schools have used less to provide themselves with an excuse to cheat the employee...
because you would usually need a signed contract to apply for an RP the idea that a RP is applied for before the contract is signed would be unlikely...and renewals of contract also usually commences on t he date of the old contract is finished...and there is a limit as to when you can apply for a new RP and that time limit would not allow too much time for an advanced application |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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I love touring China.
Now Stepp, I am trying to bring an issue of a month difference in between an employement contract and the visa, not a couple of days difference there.
But sorry if I don't see it "as simple as" you do there. 
Peace to ya
and
cheers and beers to our contracts and permits of all kinds in China |
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bendan
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 739
Location: North China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I have had this for a few years now. In the beginning my visa lasted beyond my contract, but now it expires before the end of term. The school says it is less money for an 11-month visa. There's absolutely no other benefit for them. |
You are right that it is less money, but I think that you are wrong that there is absolutely no other benefit for them. The benefit of such practice is that your arse is their arse for that one month (if you do not wish to extend your contract).
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean about my arse being their arse, but I'd say it's the school that's in an awkward position. If I say I don't want to renew the contract, they either have to get me a new short-term visa (and end up paying more in total than they would have to get a one year visa) or they decide to screw me and I walk away before the end of term. This causes them lots of headaches and complaints from parents and students about them not fulfilling their promises.
I guess if I was on my first contract in China, I'd be suspicious about this. If you are working in one place for a number of years, I don't think it's anything to worry about. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| they decide to screw me and I walk away before the end of term. This causes them lots of headaches and complaints from parents and students about them not fulfilling their promises |
maybe not ...as many schools actually end English classes before other subjects there may be a month to play around with ..and this gives the issuer's a great deal of leeway when it comes to cutting the FT out of some benefit or bonus... |
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bendan
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 739
Location: North China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| cj750 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| they decide to screw me and I walk away before the end of term. This causes them lots of headaches and complaints from parents and students about them not fulfilling their promises |
maybe not ...as many schools actually end English classes before other subjects there may be a month to play around with ..and this gives the issuer's a great deal of leeway when it comes to cutting the FT out of some benefit or bonus... |
I guess. I suppose it depends on the FT's particular situation. |
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