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sara.ede
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Boston
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: ALV Taiwan |
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Recently offered a short summer stint with this school, would love to hear from past summer camp participants about their experience.
Sara |
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ironlionjtb
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| I was also and want to get some background on the company before I commit... |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| I was also and want to get some background on the company before I commit... |
Post the name of the school or organization and the land line telephone number for an effective background check.
A. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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ALV stands for American Language Village. They have two places that they list as premises - one in Banqiao in Taipei, the other in Zhongli in south central Taiwan.
The program has apparently been operating from 1992 and offers short term programs over the summer, but no long term prospects.
There are some comments about the camps over at www.buxiban.com.
As pointed out on Buxiban.com most of these short term courses are illegal for teachers as the organizers have you work on a tourist visa. A one year contract is required for a legal work permit, and these programs are unable to offer this.
The program itself seems fine as far as payment etc, but would be illegal. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| but would be illegal |
The programs are not illegal, working on Taiwan without a work permit sponsored by an employer is not illegal so long as that person is permitted to work under any one of a number of circumstances.
All that is entirely irrelevant as people with a valid work permit and ARC are routinely deported without court order or any kind of judicial oversight.
Some estimate as many as 90%+ of all foreigners working on Taiwan are doing so in contravention of one regulation or another.
Don't be too concerned with the laws and regulations on Taiwan as not even the government follow their own laws particuarly when money or face is involved. On Taiwan there is no rule of law only the rule of the corrupt.
Welcome to Taiwan.
A.
Last edited by Aristotle on Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| The programs are not illegal, working on Taiwan without a work permit sponsored by an employer is not illegal so long as that person is permitted to work under any one of a number of circumstances. |
The program itself is not illegal but it is illegal for foreigners to teach the program. Therefore for all intents and purposes, getting involved within teaching within this program would be illegal for foreigners as it would comprise illegal work. The only exceptions would be people with APRC's (open work permits afforded by marriage or other special status), which excludes the majority of foreign teachers.
Someone interested in coming to Taiwan to work within this program over the summer is almost certainly going to be working illegally, whether they know it or not. The modus operandi is that they are here for a few months so just teach on a tourist visa. This consitutes illegal work and breach of visa conditions.
The only foreigners who would be entitled to teach legally within that program would be:
a) Naturalized citizens of which there are but a handful
b) APRC holders - who would most likely be too busy with their full time jobs to be able to take time off over the summer to participate within such a program
c) Teachers here for the summer, or new arrivals in Taiwan. Each of these is ineligible for such work as far as the law goes
| Aristotle wrote: |
| All that is entirely irrelevant as people with a valid work permit and ARC are routinely deported without court order or any kind of judicial oversight. |
It is totally relevant!
Yeah! Yeah! You have been saying that stuff about foreigners with ARC's getting deported all the time, but you have never produced a single substantiated account of it having occured. On the other hand I could supply dozens of acounts of foreigners with ARC's being caught working illegally, or overstaying their visas, all of whom were not deported. Surely, if the authorities were so overzealous in deporting foreigners with ARC's, then these individuals who were caught in breach of their visas for being here would have been the first to be deported. Instead the authorities assisted them in resolving their problems so that they could remain. On this topic Aristotle, I can confidently say that you are full of it!
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Some estimate as many as 90%+ of all foreigners working on Taiwan are doing so in contravention of one regulation or another. |
What estimates? Source?
Are talking about the figures bandied about by that highly respected organization SSETT? Well let's see them then. I don't agree with them. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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clark.w.griswald wrote,
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| b) APRC holders - who would most likely be too busy with their full time jobs to be able to take time off over the summer to participate within such a program |
Clark, it would be illegal to work for ALV from what I understand because your ARC is only good for the company that you work for. So they could still fine you for working for ALV summer camp. ALV will not offer you a ARC. I worked at the camp last summer.
As for Sara's orginal post. You should not be worried about getting paid. The owner of the company is Leo and he seems to be pretty honest. From what I have heard he greases the palms of some people and so he can get away with having illegal teachers. The only thing is that they did not like my teaching but since I had no experience and did not know what to do this should be expected. There is no training. You just have to use the course book and figure things out for yourself. But the way you seem them may not be the way they want them to be done.
Secondly the contract is stated in terms that you are getting reimbursed for your flight. I am no expert in Taiwan law but this might be the loop hole that allows ALV to get away with what they are doing. They may just say that they are not paying the teachers a salary and it might be fully legal to pay for someone's flight to Taiwan so that they will teach for free at a summer camp. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Clark, it would be illegal to work for ALV from what I understand because your ARC is only good for the company that you work for. So they could still fine you for working for ALV summer camp. ALV will not offer you a ARC. I worked at the camp last summer. |
JZer, what you wrote is correct for ARC holders. However I referred to APRC holders.
The holders of Alien Resident Certificates (ARC) are indeed tied to the company or companies listed on their ARC and are not entitled to undertake work outside of these employers. Alien Permanent Resident Certicates (APRC) offer their holders pretty much an open work permit, enabling these foreigners to undertake any work that they are qualified to undertake and for any employer. They have work rights pretty much inline with locals. As such APRC holders could work for ALV on these short term courses legally, but I doubt that many would as they no doubt already have full time work.
| JZer wrote: |
You should not be worried about getting paid. The owner of the company is Leo and he seems to be pretty honest. From what I have heard he greases the palms of some people and so he can get away with having illegal teachers. The only thing is that they did not like my teaching but since I had no experience and did not know what to do this should be expected. There is no training. You just have to use the course book and figure things out for yourself. But the way you seem them may not be the way they want them to be done.
Secondly the contract is stated in terms that you are getting reimbursed for your flight. I am no expert in Taiwan law but this might be the loop hole that allows ALV to get away with what they are doing. They may just say that they are not paying the teachers a salary and it might be fully legal to pay for someone's flight to Taiwan so that they will teach for free at a summer camp. |
It is good to hear from someone who was actually involved with the course. I think that you make a valid point, and that is that just because the course may technically be illegal for most foreign teachers doesn�t automatically mean that the organizers will be dishonest and withhold pay etc. The problem with working illegally is that whatever is stated as being your rights under Taiwan Law as far as Labor Laws are concerned, will not really apply to you as you are working illegally. Therefore it would be wise to go in expecting the worst, and hopefully you will come out on top. ALV has been going for a while and there haven�t been a lot of complaints so it does seem pretty well legit. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Leo the owner made some comments on the job discussion board. Furthermore I heard last year that he even paid some teachers one week more than the contract stated because they worked from like 7AM-7PM everyday. The is second hand knowledge so I cannot say whether it is try but that is what I heard. |
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sara.ede
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the information. Actually decided not to go as they offered only a two week stint...and Taiwan is AWFULLY far from WI for a two week job.
Thanks again,
Sara |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Sara, you could ask to work longer. Just because they are only offering a two week stint does not mean that they will not hire you for four weeks. They might have changed their policies but I knew a guy that worked 7 weeks for them last year. |
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sara.ede
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, in my original application I asked for four weeks and then they offered two...when declining I told them my reason was the shortness of the contract so if they counter offer thats great, if not...I have an interview this week for something in my first choice country so its no big deal. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Sara |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sara,
If you do not mind me asking. What is your first choice? I am going to China this summer. I wanted to go to Latin America but I did not find anything.
JZer |
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sara.ede
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm interviewing for a job that starts in May in Mexico but its for a full year. I was contemplating Taiwan for the summer and then Mexico for a year starting in the fall but I might as well jump right into Mexico if I can. I know I'll end up spending money in Taiwan and given my student loans I need to make sure to have plenty of savings by the time I start making a Mexican salary.
Sara |
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Big John Stud
Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 513
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am Post subject: |
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[quote="JZer"]clark.w.griswald wrote,
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| Secondly the contract is stated in terms that you are getting reimbursed for your flight. I am no expert in Taiwan law but this might be the loop hole that allows ALV to get away with what they are doing. They may just say that they are not paying the teachers a salary and it might be fully legal to pay for someone's flight to Taiwan so that they will teach for free at a summer camp. |
Does anyone know if the above is true? I have been offered a position too. But I don't know if I want to risk working in a country illegally. I am an establish teacher in Japan, however, I often wonder what teaching other kids would be like. |
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