Job Discussion Forums

[Yawarakaijin]

Here's the situation. I work in an office setting for a large engineering firm in Tokyo. This is a pretty large firm with many of it's employees having done considerable stints overseas. I'm sitting at my desk this morning without very much to do as my scheduled students are out on a business trip.

The lady who sits one desk down and across from me is in debate with one of the salarymen over the wording of an email. I'm casually listening on, wondering if they will even approach me to help them clean up the email's language. (supposedly one of my job's in this company)

Granted, I share my time between different offices but I have,in the past, taught both of these individuals. They both know me relatively well.
After about 15 minutes of them going back and forth the OL finally drops the G bomb. " Why don't you ask the GAIJIN for help?" while looking and motioning towards me. For a split second I was stunned. I quickly composed myself though and replied, "Gaijin? my name is James. You know that right?" I didn't say it angrily, but neither was I smiling or laughing it off. She immediately offered a trite apology and I went over to help them without any more fuss over the matter.

I am quite aware that the issue of whether or not GAIJIN is offensive or not has been beaten to death on this board so let's try to confine the debate to this particular situation. My questions are as follow.

a.) In a business setting would it be acceptable for a japanese individual to refer to his/her co-worker directly as "the gaijin?"

b.) Do you think I disrupted the "social harmony" by chiding her, even ever so softly.

[japanman]

I think that her behaviour was very unacceptable. By experience of kids calling me gaijin, the teacher tells them that it is rude to say such a thing etc.
Is this lady usualy a bit off or was this out of character?

[Gordon]

I think she was the one who broke the "social harmony". I certainly wouldn't have offered to help them after that. I would have headed off for awhile to do something else. They could do it themselves.

Sounds like they are walking all over you.

[Sherri]

I call unacceptable and I do not believe you disrupted harmony. If I were you, I would be wondering if this was the kind of place where I would like to continue working. I worked for a time for a company where I was the only non-Japanese and people there referred to me by my first name with "san" tacked on. I would have been mortified if the same thing happened to me. Do you think it is a one off or do you think that is how most people in the office regard you?

Sherri

[canuck]

Maybe the person was frustrated with her co-worker and it just came out. I wouldn't read much into it. The acceptable behaviour would be to talk to her, and remind her that you don't appreciate the word, especially in the a business situation. She'll respect that and you move on. There's no need to turn into a hussy and make a big deal about it. If it were to happen often, then that is the time to take it a step further.

To answer your questions...

A) It's not appropriate, but mistakes happen. Don't think too much into it.

B) You didn't disrupt the "wa" of the company.

I wouldn't push it further, looking for your 15 minutes of fame either. Just do your job and avoid a witch hunt or crusade. Spend your time doing more productive stuff. Think about finishing a degree. All your co-workers have one. That's one way to garner some more respect.

[dove]

I would have been upset. I don't know if I would have said anything. I also am concerned with maintaining "wa". But it's like non-Japanese baseball players in this country. They are always referred to as the foreign player, not the Dominican player, the American player, the Cuban player. It's the mentality here. I just don't think it's going to change....like Canuck. He is always going to have a negative comment. But he's the worst kind. He defends himself by saying that he's just being brutally honest.

[Sage]

Damn. That was pretty offensive.

Though, my guess is they didn't think you were listening so they didn't feel the need to be fake-polite when talking about you.

[Yawarakaijin]

To answer some questions. Yes, it was a one off thing. In two years, it was the first time I have ever been called "the gaijin." It's a pretty big company and by no means is this an indication of how I'm usually treated, I was just a little miffed. I moved on, no big deal.

It's always an interesting situation when it crops up in other social situations as well. Is the person trying to be offensive or have they just used the word so many times it has become natural for them?

I mean seriously, when you take a Japanese person to task over the use of the word what is the more common response?

A.) Confused stare " what is this guy so angry about?"
B.) Oh my, I have been caught using an offensive word. Run!

In my experience it has usually been A. Then again, they are good pretty good at hiding their true feelings aren't they.

[kdynamic]

Most Japanese people don't understand why it's offensive. But in your situation I would have been equally offended if someone I had been working with for two years said let's ask "that person" as if they didn't know my name! I think this instance, she probably meant "let's ask a native speaker" and the g-word just popped out.

As for what to do now, I would say something like この間、私のことを「外人」と呼んだけど、これから名前を使ってください。She will probably get the point without a whole lecture on the implications of the word. And if she questions you as to why you took offense, or tries to make excuses, tell her from now on you'll be calling her "short woman" or "squeaky voice person" or whatever other random attribute she might have.

[Gypsy Rose Kim]

I was flying back and forth between Seoul and Tokyo this week, and I thought this was pretty funny:

When Koreans enter Japan, they have to stand in the line that has the Chinese characters for "Gaijin" or "Waygook-saram" at Immigration. And then, when the Japanese enter Korea, they have to do the same.

I know it is nigh on impossible for them to ever conceptualize that they are in fact "foreigners" as opposed to visiting a country where everyone who was born there is a foreigner.

Kind of off-topic, but it amused me after my boring flights.

[JimDunlop2]

Once again, I find myself turning to analogies, with which undoubtedly some will argue with. But I get a much clearer picture if I imagine the same situation but under different circumstances.

How about a large American corporation, in the R&D section of a Silicon Valley hardware firm... All within earshot of a native Spanish-speaker named Edmundo.

Co-Worker 1: I'm just about done drafting that letter for our Mexico City office. It's in Spanish -- can you look it over?

Co-worker 2: Sure.... (reading). I think this verb is out of place.

Co-worker 1: No, I'm pretty sure I got it right. I checked a conjugation chart...

Co-worker 2: Trust me, something's off.

Co-worker 1: Fine, let's just go ask the alien.



Uhhh, no. That would be terribly out of line. What's wrong with just "Let's just go ask Edmundo?" And if Edmundo got upset, and said, "I'm sorry but you don't need to refer to me as "the alien." You remember my name, right? It's Edmundo." That would certainly be a most appropriate reply.

Oh, and as a edit / after-thought (having read GRK's response)... Because you may not have read some of the other debates on this:

To set the record straight, when Koreans (or anyone else) come to Japan, they stand in a line that says: 外国人　(gaikokujin) and NOT 外人 (gaijin). The two are very different, and from what I've been told and have read in a number of places, gaijin is NOT a shortened form of gaikokujin, and they actually have completely different etymologies.

[BradS]

I'm kind of puzzled by people saying it's okay because it just "slipped out". Seriously. Things like that don't "slip out" unless you use them on a regular basis.

Notice that she said it when she was most likely assuming you weren't listening. She sounds like the kind of Japanese person who pretends to be polite to people instead of actually being polite.

I've had several staff at my job refer to me as Gaijin and Gaikokujin and every time I tell them not to say it as it's offensive and also reflects badly on themselves. Every time I've gotten an apology and it hasn't affected my working relations with them at all. I do notice that when they're talking to other people they use the word/s though so it's a bit frustrating as instead of listening to my opinion they just decide not to use it around me.

How many people here can seriously imagine a Japanese person saying to another Japanese person "You know an Australian friend of mine told me that Gaijin is actually offensive so I don't think I'll use the word any more."

[Zzonkmiles]

Sounds like that woman views you as hired help. Ouch.

I worked in a Japanese office before, but none of the staff ever referred to me as "the gaijin." They always called me by name, name-san, or name-sensei. Even staff members who didn't know my name would refer to me when talking amongst themselves as "eigo no sensei," which is a bit more respectful.

I probably would have told the woman "kono gaijin wa chotto isogashii" or something like that. But Canuck does have a point. Finding a decent job in Japan is tough enough as is. Is it really worth starting a huge fuss over this and risk making things even worse for you over this?

[Yawarakaijin]

Using the word in your own social circle I can somewhat forgive. I mean I grew up having never met a real indian (native american) Thousands of people could tell me not to use that term anymore, but if im with my white friends...sorry I am gonna say indian.

Now, when I use the word indian it doesnt carry any racist connotations in my mind, but even with never having met or been around indians, I could never envisage myself saying something like, "hey indian, can you give me a hand?"

So for me its quite disheartening because I can only draw 3 conclusions.

One, they are absolutely CLUELESS!
Two, they have heard the complaint before and just don't give a damn..
Three, they use it offensively on purpose.


p.s I explained how I said my piece and went over to help, didnt make a big fuss over it. Nowhere did I indicate I was looking for retorts to this woman in order to drag this out or become any kind of martyr.

I imagine it would be a much bigger deal if it had been my section chief or boss. I dont really think I need to reconsider my job based on one comment from an OL.

[canuck]