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Nadrazi
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: Why teach in Taiwan? |
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Ok I'm still in the researching phase but I've read quite a bit on this site over the last few days. I feel like I've been reading over and over about how horrible the teaching conditions are with Taiwanese schools. Is Taiwan only a popular tesl location because of the money?
I ask because I've been interested for a while in teaching in the mainland and decided to look at Taiwan as well because of the extra money. But are things there really so bad/frustrating/intolerable with the schools? Is this the same as mainland China or just a little extra discomfort added in Taiwan?
Personally I am just looking for the experience of teaching, learning to speak Chinese, and get a little bit of culture as well. I've gotten the impression that you can live pretty well off the salary in the mainland but not save money. The idea of extra pay in Taiwan sounds nice but is it worth the fighting for extra hours, moonlighting, and overbearing schools? Or have I got the wrong idea from a few outspoken unhappy? Any opinions? By the way I have a bachelors but no experience. |
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MomCat
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Why teach in Taiwan? |
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| Nadrazi wrote: |
| Is this the same as mainland China or just a little extra discomfort added in Taiwan? |
Hi Nadrazi, I've taught in both countries. I think the teaching conditions in China are much worse than here in Taiwan.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| Personally I am just looking for the experience of teaching |
It will be hard to find any real teaching job in China. The ones that are there are generally in Universities or in International schools, neither of which, it seems, you have the qualifications for. Some will argue that the same is true here, that there is no "real" teaching in Taiwan. Without arguing that point, I will say that on a scale of "real" teaching, Taiwan is higher than the Mainland.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| ... learning to speak Chinese |
I believe you can do that equally well in either country.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| .... and get a little bit of culture as well. |
The culture in Mainland China is making money. You don't have to teach there to learn that. Are you interested in Chinese history, Confuciusian philosophy, Buddhism or Taoism, Chinese art, opera or traditional music. If so you will have a much better chance of finding that here. Perhaps not easily, but at least it exists.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| I've gotten the impression that you can live pretty well off the salary in the mainland but not save money. |
China is a huge place with an enormous variety of opportunities and experiences. Some cities like Xiamen and Kunming are popular so the wages are lower and it's harder to save. Other places offer higher wages and fewer goodies to spend your money on so it's possible to save quite a bit of your salary.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| The idea of extra pay in Taiwan sounds nice but is it worth the fighting for extra hours, moonlighting, and overbearing schools? |
Well, you'll probably be fighting about all those same things in China. As well as being spied on, contractually forfeiting your freedom of speech, being lied to constantly about things that do not matter and probably being cheated on your pay whenever possible.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| Or have I got the wrong idea from a few outspoken unhappy? |
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet (and, yes, that includes what I say). It's all just opinions based on the writer's background and neurosis.
Nadrazi, teaching in China is an experience that can't be had anywhere else. If your goal is to experience modern China I certainly wouldn't try to discourage you from going there.
Good Luck,
Cat |
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BigWally
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Why teach in Taiwan? |
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[quote="MomCat"]
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| Is this the same as mainland China or just a little extra discomfort added in Taiwan? |
Mainland China conditions are far worse than anything you'll run into here...
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| Personally I am just looking for the experience of teaching |
You will not be a "real teacher" generally speaking working in the ESL industry over here....any school you work for is 1st and foremost a business, and the business comes before the education...many schools will have fancy curriculum's designed to entice parents to send their kids to that school to increase enrollment...your job is to keep the clients (students) happy, and coming back for more business (English lessons)...if they pick up some English skills along the way kudos!
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| ... learning to speak Chinese |
The basics are easy enough, but to get good it is tough, but do-able....you also have to decide if you want to learn Mandarin or Cantonese, or both, or maybe some Taiwanese?
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| .... and get a little bit of culture as well. |
Momma Kitty is right here...you have to get out and find it, but its around
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| The idea of extra pay in Taiwan sounds nice but is it worth the fighting for extra hours, moonlighting, and overbearing schools? |
Its really not as bad, or as scary as some posters may make it sound...I mean yes, even I've had problems with my employer, but at the end of the day, I love the kids, they are happy and having fun with me as their "teacher" and as such the school likes the job I'm doing...the money they want to pay me is great, and because of this I have been able to travel to places I never imagined...working full time, i've been able to go to drive around pretty much all of Taiwan from the mountains to the ocean, Taipei, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Singapore, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Malaysia, and this is all just in my 1st year of employment....year 2 here I come...oh, and I'm still managing to send home close to $1000CDN each month.....
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| Or have I got the wrong idea from a few outspoken unhappy? |
Taiwan is great, as I think its probably slightly more "westernized" than China would be, but then again, China is the new up and coming superpower of the world...so who knows if being westernized is a good thing...either way, I think this little island in the South China Sea is pretty decen... |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:49 am Post subject: |
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I spent two years in Taiwan and loved it. Living overseas isn't for everyone and that is the discontent you will hear from some people on every board about every country. Not to say there aren't problems . . .
I haven't taught in China - but I did certainly prefer Taiwan over Korea - though I earned less.
Taiwan is a good mix of the good bad of a variety of countries. I do have to say though that the students at the college where I taught were serious about their studies and did a pretty good job considering they were sitting in 35 hours of classes a week (!!) and many of the had part- and full-time jobs. |
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Nadrazi
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Why teach in Taiwan? |
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| MomCat wrote: |
| Hi Nadrazi, I've taught in both countries. I think the teaching conditions in China are much worse than here in Taiwan. |
| BigWally wrote: |
| Mainland China conditions are far worse than anything you'll run into here... |
Ok but why? What makes mainland so much worse? Is it something in particular for each or just the cumulative effect of everything?
| Quote: |
| Some will argue that the same is true here, that there is no "real" teaching in Taiwan. Without arguing that point, I will say that on a scale of "real" teaching, Taiwan is higher than the Mainland. |
I understand the relative authenticity of teaching (or lack thereof) that's being referred to so I guess it was more a question of oversight. Meaning which keeps you on a shorter lease, more difficult to stray from set curriculum....etc. Is one place easier than the other to get a little creative with your teaching style or are you constantly being watched.
| Quote: |
| The basics are easy enough, but to get good it is tough, but do-able....you also have to decide if you want to learn Mandarin or Cantonese, or both, or maybe some Taiwanese? |
For the most part I have only considered Mandarin. It just seems to be the most widely spoken (not just Taiwan) and therefore the most practical.
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| The culture in Mainland China is making money. You don't have to teach there to learn that. |
It can't be any more so than in the States, if so then what's the point of going abroad at all? 
| Quote: |
| Are you interested in Chinese history, Confuciusian philosophy, Buddhism or Taoism, Chinese art, opera or traditional music. If so you will have a much better chance of finding that here. Perhaps not easily, but at least it exists. |
This is probably an unfair cursory remark, but isn't that like saying "there's culture in Chinatown if you go look for it"? I guess my point is that I'd like this to be not only a job but an experience as well. That during my one or two years in Taiwan/China I hope to be not just a teacher but a student as well, a human sponge soaking up everything I can learn. So for this particular part of my question, am I right to derive that China would be a stronger cultural immersion experience?
| Quote: |
| China is a huge place with an enormous variety of opportunities and experiences. Some cities like Xiamen and Kunming are popular so the wages are lower and it's harder to save. Other places offer higher wages and fewer goodies to spend your money on so it's possible to save quite a bit of your salary. |
Ok that makes sense but by "saving money" I meant more in US$ terms than as a percentage of your salary. I don't mind living at/near local standards during my stay, though having a few grand put away from work could help make the transition home a bit easier (or better yet pay for a good deal of travel after the completion of my working term!!)
| Quote: |
| As well as being spied on, contractually forfeiting your freedom of speech, being lied to constantly about things that do not matter and probably being cheated on your pay whenever possible. |
With the exception of my pay, I think I can tolerate the rest pretty well. Whether Taiwan or China I expect to only stay for one, possible two years. Although I'm not a supporter of chinese censorship, I think I could take it all with a grain of salt while I was there. After all that is a part of daily life for them is it not? Don't you need to understand that loss of freedom before you can truely understand the people?
| Quote: |
| Nadrazi, teaching in China is an experience that can't be had anywhere else. If your goal is to experience modern China I certainly wouldn't try to discourage you from going there. |
Thank you, and you've given me a lot of help, though maybe more uncertainty as well.  I guess I just want to mix the best of both worlds into my own personal chinese teaching cocktail......and hell while I'm at it I might as well throw in a SK salary to boot!
| BigWally wrote: |
| I mean yes, even I've had problems with my employer, but at the end of the day, I love the kids, they are happy and having fun with me as their "teacher" and as such the school likes the job I'm doing...the money they want to pay me is great, and because of this I have been able to travel to places I never imagined...working full time, i've been able to go to drive around pretty much all of Taiwan from the mountains to the ocean, Taipei, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Singapore, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Malaysia, and this is all just in my 1st year of employment.. |
Well that undoubtedly cancels out the worst of any horror story. On that note BigWally who are you working for, where, and are they hiring?  |
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MomCat
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Why teach in Taiwan? |
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Sorry double post
Last edited by MomCat on Tue May 08, 2007 1:42 am; edited 2 times in total |
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MomCat
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Why teach in Taiwan? |
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| Nadrazi wrote: |
| Is one place easier than the other to get a little creative with your teaching style or are you constantly being watched. |
Good teachers are always creative, but if you mean creative like not using the material you're given, then China is probably easier. However, there is no creative, critical or original thinking in China. None, nada, zilch, zero. So do not expect any feedback or fruition from your efforts.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| It can't be any more so than in the States, if so then what's the point of going abroad at all? |
Indeed, what is the point?
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| This is probably an unfair cursory remark, but isn't that like saying "there's culture in Chinatown if you go look for it"? |
No, it's like saying, "If you're interested (in the US) in Rodeos, New Age Religions, Civil War re-enactments or opera they exist but you'll have to look for them.
| Nadrazi wrote: |
| ....am I right to derive that China would be a stronger cultural immersion experience? |
I don't know, define, "cultural immersion experience". Do you mean the country that will give you the greatest culture shock or will provide the most diverse range of cultural experiences or something else?
If you will only be in the country for a year it will be more difficult to find the "great" teaching job. Those positions don't have as high a turnover as others and when there is an opening it's often filled by word of mouth. It's can also be more difficult in China to break a contract and move to another job.
Nadrazi, Taiwan is not a wealthier substitute for China. They are very different countries. You sound like you really want to spend the year in China. May I suggest that you consider a collage in a smaller city. They don't have the same profit-motive mentality and you will probably have more flexability in the classroom. You'll only need a Bachelors, they'll provide housing and airfare and you should be able to save a few hundred dollars each month if you, as you say you are willing to do, live like a local.
Good luck to you,
Cat |
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