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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:37 am Post subject: North American jobs |
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Do you ever wonder what the motivation is behind jobs in North America withholding the salary. I applied once to a job in Toronto and they refused to tell me the salary saying,"You'll get the salary details if you're chosen to be interviewed". |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Maybe because nobody would apply if they knew in advance how little they would be paid... It is weird, though. I know it's taboo to seem too interested in the money during the interview process, but surely schools must know that it's something their prospective employees will consider when deciding whether or not to work there.
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I've noticed it as well, and in fact I've had some potential employers tell me that I'll find out salary details when they make an actual offer.
"Congratulations! You made it through our hiring process, and we're going to pay you... $10 an hour!"
"Um, no thanks..."
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 1270
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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I've heard of similar situations in Japan where the employee doesn't know exact salary figures until after he is hired. Of course, I was also recently told by a group of older Japanese men (who you might think more willing to condone such a thing) how they'd never take a job on those terms. |
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J.
Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 327
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: Arrogance |
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Hate to say this, well maybe not really, but the whole employer culture in Canada is extremely arrogant. If you work for government or the civil service it's even worse. They can only afford to be this way because jobs are so scarce.
It only stands to reason that someone contemplating moving to ANOTHER COUNTRY to take a job will want to know if it's worth it in financial terms. DUH! |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Wanting to know the salary beforehand is taboo in Ontario for ESL teachers because the salary is so low and you are supposed to want to do it so badly that you'll do it for free (which describes accurately the rate of pay in a significant number of situations in Ontario).
It's because a lot of ESL jobs are basically farmed out to upper middle class housewives who will do it for free.
I once wondered about it, but then figured it was just another reason to not live in Canada. Yay me!!!! Boo Canada!!!! |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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A big problem in Japan with university jobs where they like to say they pay competitive rates, but those rates vary a lot. Surprisingly, lower tier schools often pay more than higher 'status' schools, where at the latter you can perhaps feed your ego, but not your family very well. This applies to even full time jobs, where sometimes you need to bring your own computer to log onto their network. Next they'll be asking full timers to bring their own desks. |
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Jetgirly
Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Arrogance |
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J. wrote: |
Hate to say this, well maybe not really, but the whole employer culture in Canada is extremely arrogant. If you work for government or the civil service it's even worse. They can only afford to be this way because jobs are so scarce. |
I work for the provincial government every summer (in an auxilliary position that would automatically become permanent if I didn't keep quitting every September). I get paid more than twice what someone working a comparable job in a non-unionized environment would make. Most of my colleages are students who, upon graduation, use their union status to leverage themselves into degree-related roles in other ministries. My employers have always been up-front with information about salary, seniority, contract renewal, etc. If anything, I feel that my wage is excessive when weighed against the level of education, training and skill required to perform my job. Coincidentally, unemployment in my area is almost non-existant and more than half of the people employed in my ministry are eligible to retire before 2010. Your experiences with the civil service definitely don't reflect mine... consider changing provinces!
I am ALWAYS job hunting and often try to get salary information as soon as possible. If an ad doesn't contain salary info, I'll just send off a somewhat generic resume (change "Italy" to "Canada", etc) and see what happens. When it leads to a phone call, I'll try to get salary info early on in the conversation. I usually say something like, "I know this may sound up front, but I want to make sure we're both on the same page here. May I ask what salary you're offering for this position?" Nobody has clammed up on me yet! |
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choctawmicmac
Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Arrogance |
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[quote]Hate to say this, well maybe not really, but the whole employer culture in Canada is extremely arrogant. If you work for government or the civil service it's even worse. They can only afford to be this way because jobs are so scarce. [/quote]
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this! And to see someone else admit that it's all of Canada and not just Montreal or Quebec. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
A big problem in Japan with university jobs where they like to say they pay competitive rates, but those rates vary a lot. Surprisingly, lower tier schools often pay more than higher 'status' schools, where at the latter you can perhaps feed your ego, but not your family very well. This applies to even full time jobs, where sometimes you need to bring your own computer to log onto their network. Next they'll be asking full timers to bring their own desks. |
Well one university I know is so stingy that they don't even provide teachers with white board pens. |
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