Job Discussion Forums

[dave_merk]

Looking back through my older posts on this board, you'll see what I was keenly interested in the issue of the degree requirement being enforced across the board in this country. I've been away from the board for a while so I just wanted to share some new details on the situation.

In 2006 I went to renew my FEC as usual and received one that was issued by the Provincial Foreign Affairs Office (sheng waishi ban) instead of another one issued by SAFEA (guojia waiguo zhuanjia ju). My FAO-issued FEC was good enough for my RPF renewal in 2006, so I didn't think anything of it.

Last month, though, someone from SAFEA showed up at my school saying that I needed to switch FECs and get a new one from SAFEA and not the FAO. On the list of things I'd need for that was a copy of my degree, which I don't have. My school dispatched one of the teachers to the SAFEA office to talk about the affair and said that even though I didn't have a degree the SAFEA office could still issue me an FEC. I'd need to compile the following:

-A full CV with references and letters of reccomendation
-Letter of proof from my university that I will be earning a degree within 4 years (translated into Chinese)
-An application for a "Permit for Foreign Expert to Come to China and Work" (waiguo zhuanjia lai hua gongzuo shike zheng)
-Introduction letter from the school about why they want me to work there

And some other minor things. I mentioned how weird it was that I'd need a "come to China to work" permit since I've already worked here for four years. My co-worker shrugged and said we had to do what SAFEA said. So, I compiled all of that stuff.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago and my co-worker comes back to our office and says that the leader of the SAFEA office misunderstood. He thought that I was coming to China to work for the first time. Now that she explained that I have several years of working experience in China under my belt, she was able to get my new FEC. She placed the new FEC booklet carefully in my hands, I handed her the 800 yuan reimbursement fee (they make me pay for documents myself. what a rip-off), and then went home to put my FEC in the drawer where its predecessors had lain.

Moral of the story: it might be hard for newbies with no degrees to get legal, but it IS possible. The degree enforcment deal IS NOT set in stone, as far as I can tell. And as for those of us who have been here a while (AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WORKING LEGALLY AT SCHOOLS WITH THE LEGAL RIGHT TO HIRE FOREIGNERS, those are two very important details), I don't think we have much to worry about.

And now a stupid question: am I the only one on this board who is working legally (RPF and FEC) without a degree?

[tw]

[dave_merk]

[HunanForeignGuy]

Dave,

You are one of the politest posters around here so I would like to take some time out to help you think this one through.

What TW writes used to true..however, several years ago, and I want to say about 2003, SAFEA changed entirely. In the past, the FEB of each province came directly under SAFEA. That was altered, upon orders from Beijing, and each province was allowed to have its own FEB that conformed to the dictates and requirements of the province. Here in Guangdong, for example, there is the Guangdong Foreign Experts Bureau, and there is in the case of the City of Guangzhou, the City of Guangzhou Foreign Experts Bureau, and the responsibilities for the two are very distinct and touch upon different institutions, both private and public.

In Hunan, however, in ChangSha, the Foreign Experts Burea, which is remarkably proactive, comes directly under the aegis of the police.

Thus, I am amazed the some SAFEA office actually put its nose into a Harbin provincial matter like this. If the FEB had done it, then perhaps I would have been less surprised but again I do not now remember the structure of thing sin Harbin. When I worked in Harbin, the province and Beijing were quite distinct and the Harbin FEB operated with more autonomy than any other that I had seen and have seen since.

You were, as you surmised, "grandfathered in" because of your status.

I am worried if someone perhaps might have decided that it was time for a "little present" if you understand.

[william wallace]

HERE IS THE GAME: To get an entry level FT job the employers of the big outfits (not necessarily better, just more as.sets) require a degree as policy, but can be flexible. The smaller places, especially cowboy outfits will take anyone that's cheap-reasonable- And that's for 80%(vast majority) of ESL jobs, also known in the real world as "entry level positions".

For the advanced 20% of jobs, you have to compete with tons of paper holders who are coming to grips with too many advanced degree holding in developed countries, so therefore a lot of time and money is necessary on studying.

[samhouston]

[Lobster]

I think you may find some work on an "F" visa with all the associated ramifications, but your chances of getting the FEC and TRP required for a stable position are not great in Shanghai, because they've been cracking down on those with no degree. I don't think the average Chinese person could help you in this aspect, but they may be able to help you with privates or under-the-table work.

RED

[dave_merk]

[China Redux]

In Suzhou there are examples of trainers working w/o degrees.

It can be a problem in Shenzhen with Wall St English. In the rest of China it is hit and miss with WS on this point. I'm told in Guangdong province now you are supposed to have a degree. International chains seem to enforce this more than the Chinese outfits. And some Chinese cos just register your papers in another province. Read: "Where there's a will, there's a way."

[tw]

[dave_merk]

[diana83709]

I lack CJ276 for my Criminal Justice degree and am wrapping up my internship here in China as well as requiring 6 more classes for my BA in English. Took a TEFL course thru Via Lingua in Greece 2 years ago and have certificate.

I do have a resident visa and Foreign Expert certificate legally. I guess it depends where you are.

[tofuman]

Sam Houston,

CELTA is pretty much a waste of money for China, at least in these parts. While an excellent paradigm, it requires small classes. The small class is essential because each participant must participate. Not possible in classes of 60 or more students. It also assumes motivated students. Frequently unavailable, here.

In this central province, it is virtually unknown. I took CELTA training before coming to China. My FAO said it wasn't necessary. He was right.

Two important concepts I learned from CELTA that are useful here: 1)Grading. Make sure that the level of English that you use is understandable to the students . Teach them material that is within their conceptual grasp. 2) Concept checking. After completing a language learning task, ask questions that require them to correctly use the new language item that they have just been taught. If you simply say, "Got it?", the students may just nod, even though they have no idea what you just taught them.

There are certainly other elements of CELTA that are useful. Nearly all of what is worthwhile in this environment could be picked up in a single day of instruction and practice. A three day seminar would give you everything that you need and more.

The month long CELTA training is expensive, stressful, and for the most part, useless in China, at least in these parts.

Having some kind of ESL certification is certainly useful, particularly for people without a bachelor's degree, who are, in some cases, not allowed to teach at the university level, but may teach in other environments, such as middle school, high school, and so forth.

[samhouston]

Many thanks, Tofuman!

[tw]

tofuman is right. If you need qualification and some training, get a 40-hour online TEFL certificate or 60-hour month-long TEFL certificate. It would be enough for many parts of China and cheaper too.