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Any suggestions for teaching past obligation: Had to??

 
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Margot73



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 145
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Any suggestions for teaching past obligation: Had to?? Reply with quote

The book has a whole chapter on it. "I had to pay the rent yesterday..." etc. Any ideas for games or other exercises? I have several hours to fill with this.

Last edited by Margot73 on Wed May 16, 2007 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dreadnought



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 82
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really a game as such (more of a task), but introduce the concept of strict/lenient and get the students to do a survey to find out who had the strictest/most lenient parents when they were younger. You know, they can go round the room asking 'did you have to wash up after dinner?' 'did you have to do your homework as soon as you came home?' etc. They can get into groups afterwards, give their decision and explain why ('we think x had the strictest parents because he had to....).

Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? You know, there are quite a lot of books that have decent ideas as well. Try Grammar Practice Activities by Penny Ur.
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jr1965



Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of talking about childhood, as suggested by the poster above. For practice, you could also do a find-someone-who activity in which students create the sentences they'll use in the activity. For example:

Focus on childhood:

Find someone who�
had to go to summer school.
had to wear braces.
had to take care of a younger sibling growing up.
had to make dinner for the family.
And so on.

Students ask, "Did you have to wear braces as a kid?" Reply: "Yeah, I did." Or "Yes, I had to."

Later on, students can each talk in more detail in pairs or groups about something they had to do when they were growing up.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on age of students, have them compare what their obligations were in elementary school, junior high, and senior high.

First day on the job (signing forms, meeting certain people, orientation, etc.)

Don't forget to include negatives to practice "didn't have to". Have students do surveys on each other.
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Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2129
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Hi


I'd begin by comparing should and must.


Both are modal verbs that describe an obligation;

'should' implies a moral obligation, but we have a choice.

'must' often implies a legal obligation or rule; we have no choice.


Next, explain to the students that must = have to


but ...


'must' has no past tense, no future tense and no infinitive;

we use have to instead of must for the past, future & infinitive.


for the past tense, we use had to

for the future tense, we use will or shall have to

not so important, but for the infinitive, we use to have to


From there you can model a few conversations on the whiteboard

and let the students practice asking & answering questions

using all 3 aspects - present, past and future.



i.e,


Do you have to get up early every day of the week?


Yes, ...

No, ...


Did you have to get up early yesterday?


Yes, ...

No, ...


Will you have to get up early tomorrow?


Yes, ...

No, ...


and so on, with variations.
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teacheringreece



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
'must' often implies a legal obligation or rule; we have no choice.


I don't think that's accurate. must is more commonly used for some kind of internal obligation (e.g. I must remember to call my brother). have to is more common for external obligations. But a point that is often missed is that have to is a lot less formal, so you get a lot of overlap in more formal contexts.
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rusmeister



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why on earth do you have several hours to fill with this? Are your students retarded? Two 20-minute sessions ought to cover it (Max one hour total time over 2-3 lessons). Unless your center is micro-managing and doesn't know what it is doing.
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chola



Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 92
Location: the great white north

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: had to... Reply with quote

You could have the s's talk/write whatever about a trip/vacation somewhere, what were the things they had to do before they left, when they got there. Eg. We had to get immunized, we had to renew our passports, we had to pack our suitcases. You could also get them to talk about past work/school experiences. They could even interview each other. The whole class or groups could brainstorm a bunch of questions together first and then they could pair up....I did something like this a few times and it worked pretty well. Can also use it for the negative form ....didn't have to...
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TheLongWayHome



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For god's sake drill the structure to death. If you don't, students will understand when to use it but will come out with, 'I didn't had to go to class yesterday', and other assorted drivel.

If they don't understand the structure of the past simple, you are wasting your time.
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Margot73



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 145
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rusmeister wrote:
Why on earth do you have several hours to fill with this? Are your students retarded? Two 20-minute sessions ought to cover it (Max one hour total time over 2-3 lessons). Unless your center is micro-managing and doesn't know what it is doing.


Well, generally we are supposed to cover one unit in one week. We can do other things not in the book (videos, songs, etc) if they are related to that week's material. There is also a review of the simple past in this unit. Maybe I will come up with more excercise using this.
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheLongWayHome wrote:
For god's sake drill the structure to death. If you don't, students will understand when to use it but will come out with, 'I didn't had to go to class yesterday', and other assorted drivel.

If they don't understand the structure of the past simple, you are wasting your time.
Doesn't this depend on L1?

(what's a drill?


A device for boring.

sorry old EFL joke)
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Justin Trullinger



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(what's a drill?


A device for boring.





Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Old, but I hadn't heard it in years- thanks!

In terms of the value of drilling, or how to drill, I recommend Bill Van Patten's book, From Input to Output.

Casts some interesting doubts on the value of "traditional" drills. I believe in drilling form in some circumstances- but too often, it becomes repetition, devoid of meaning. And when it's devoid of meaning, my experience, backed by Mr Van Patten's research, seems to indicate that whatever is learned will not come back in real, meaning based situations.


Best,
Justin
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dreadnought



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 82
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacheringreece wrote:
Quote:
'must' often implies a legal obligation or rule; we have no choice.


I don't think that's accurate. must is more commonly used for some kind of internal obligation (e.g. I must remember to call my brother). have to is more common for external obligations. But a point that is often missed is that have to is a lot less formal, so you get a lot of overlap in more formal contexts.


Yes, I think you're right, there is a lot of overlap and that's why I'm not always convinced that the internal/external obligation distinction is always terribly helpful for students. I mean, the fact that you have to use 'had to' in the past for 'must' shows that there can't be that much of a distinction.

Actually, reminds me of a lesson I saw once when working as a DoS. The teacher was doing the must/have to distinction, clearly wasn't that well prepared and the students were asking lots of challenging questions, coming up with exceptions etc and the teacher was getting increasingly flustered and frustrated. Eventually, he decided to settle the debate once and for all by giving the definite distinction. In his words: " 'must' is when you have to do something and 'have to' is when you must do something".

Which, as you might imagine, cleared everything up quite nicely. Wink
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TheLongWayHome



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin Trullinger wrote:
Casts some interesting doubts on the value of "traditional" drills. I believe in drilling form in some circumstances- but too often, it becomes repetition, devoid of meaning. And when it's devoid of meaning, my experience, backed by Mr Van Patten's research, seems to indicate that whatever is learned will not come back in real, meaning based situations.

I meant context based drilling, not so much the mindless repetition though mindless repetition is a valid methodology in Mexico - as long as it's within the context of a game. Bring on the edutainment.
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basiltherat



Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 952

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In his words: " 'must' is when you have to do something and 'have to' is when you must do something".


excellent.

Reminds me of an old textbook I used many moons ago in which the following explanation (at least along the lines of) was given:

"The present perfect is used when you have done something" Rolling Eyes

Again, extremely helpful to all.

Thank God things have improved since then.

best
basil Smile
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