Job Discussion Forums

[ProfessorsWife]

My husband has just been offered a teaching position in the DQ. We've done our research but continue to find conflicting information. I'm hoping you can help. We're an American couple. We have a 14 month old daughter and another on the way at any time. In the event that he accepts the position, he would move there mid August and I would follow shortly after. We're curious about the following.

How concerned do Westerners need to be about safety?

What restrictions are placed on women? We've read that women are allowed out and about in public, but have also read that they should never leave the home without their husband or another male relative. Can anyone offer up some more information regarding this?

What is there to do? I've read that some people opt for trips and outings, that there is shopping to be done, but have also heard that people basically move there to put some money in the bank and then leave the country after their contract is through. Any thoughts on activities that would be suitable for small children?


I'm thinking that my daughters and I may have a difficult time if we're to be sequestered away in an apartment everyday until my husband gets home from work. My husband and I are both very interested and excited about the potential for such a drastic life change, but a little nervous all the same! I'd appreciate any and all info (whether it's regarding a question I've asked or not!) that anyone has to offer.


Thank yoU!

[trapezius]

You can't drive (duh!). You will have to cover your whole body while in public with a black overall (abaya), save for your face (face, not head) and hands.

Sure women are allowed out in public, and most city-dwelling Saudi (and non-Saudi) women do go out either alone or with other women, but for a (caucasian -- my assumption) American woman, I wouldn't recommend it. I mean, I wouldn't recommend walking in the city alone. What IS safe is going out in a taxi to a mall/cafe/friend/bank/whatever by yourself, i.e., as long as you are going to an enclosed place (by car).

Banks have separate female branches/sections. However, what a lot of women (the same ones fighting for equality) do to avoid lines in the female branches, is go to a regular (male) branch, and upon seeing something as scary as a woman (a lot of men here are afraid at the sight of a woman), all the men give her way to go all the way to the front of the line and be served first.

There are also some women only malls/shops, so women can be themselves inside, and remove their head-covering, and not have to worry about being harassed by horny young saudi males (and some not so young!). I am not sure if you can remove the abaya or not.

I am sure others who have more direct experience can fill in the rest!

Good luck!

[The_Prodiigy]

Trap has The Saudi Experience pretty accurately summed up.
There are a series of debilitating restrictions that make no sense.
And these are not wholly confined to women.
KSA is a tough gig, although DQ is one of the classier areas of the capital.

[Queen of Sheba]

Trapezius has done a very good job here, especially when it comes to the women who go into the men's section. That's a funny visual and not just a little annoying that they complain about inequality and then they go to the front of the line and cut in front of people who have been waiting there for hours. Now imagine working with such people all day long and you will know how annoying it is to deal with such Florence of Arabias. This is linked to the most important bits of advice I would give a women, and indeed anyone coming here is - live your life and remember that you decided to come here, stop complaining about how terrible it is. Dont impose your ideas and culture on other people, and be well prepared to be frustrated and bored at times - so bring things to do that entertain you. Become self sufficient or you will become depressed.

I don�t have much else to add other than there aren�t many activities for children I am told, but then again your kids aren�t very old. There are amusement centers with kiddy rides, and preschools, learning center shops. Once you are here, there moms in the DQ who may be able to guide you. I have heard of one preschool that�s linked with the British school, and located in Riyadh that offers art classes and Montessori type of activities.

As far as being cooped up in the apartment until your husband comes home, well, yes and no. Yes if you do not hire a taxi or a personal driver, which are available and you can get references as to who to hire once you are here and connect with some other women. No if you want to walk around, which women do all the time in the DQ, go shopping, go to Starbuck's or just enjoy the nice trails in the DQ. Life is really and truly what you make of it in Saudi, and if you are self sufficient, willing to adapt to a new culture, and have patience when it comes to paperwork and government related issues; the DQ is a quiet and relatively safe place to live. Some people will argue that Saudi is not safe for Westerners, and to this I say yes, as there have been and most likely will continue to be state department issued warnings about it, but a decent life can be had. Having said all of that, be prepared to be in a state of culture shock for the first year or so, and take it easy on passing judgment and getting stressed out about the slower pace of getting things done around here. You will save yourself a lot of personal trauma if you care too much about timelines and expect things to be professional and rigid as they are in the states. People are very flexible here, and sometimes it works for you, and sometimes it works against you. Take it easy, and Saudi will be easier on you.

[Cleopatra]

What a "debilitating restriction" is, I do not pretend to know. Anyway, on to more intelligent post(ers).....

Qof S and Trapezius give good advice. Life as a married woman here is not all that bad - certainly much easier than it is for single women - so long as you have reasonable expectations and won't get all resentful over such things as the dress code or the driving band - however unfair they may seem.

[trapezius]

[Cleopatra]

[The_Prodiigy]

Clopatra drones ...

our male posters - none of whom had never had a conversation with a Saudi woman in their lives - .. blah de blah de blah de blah

One of many examples of Clopatra's innaccurate ramblings.
Tiz peculiar to see so much nonesense spouted after having spent so much time in the country.

[Cleopatra]

Dear Prodigy,

Do forgive me. I had just thought that, what with all that fun in the sun with the boys - who can forget those tragically t-shirted days by the water slide - that maybe you didn't have the time to meet a Saudi woman. Then again, I also thought that someone living the good life now that he is freed of the horrors of KSA, just wouldn't have the time or inclination to post repetitively on a Saudi board. Seems I was wrong.

[The_Prodiigy]

More dross from Clop : [i]What a "debilitating restriction" is, I do not pretend to know. Anyway .. blah de blah de yadda yadda ...

And ...er, where the deuce are you residing now ??
In KSA!! So you keep telling folks.

Look around you ... these restrictions are everywhere.
Keep the dribble flowing.

[Cleopatra]

Just can't keep away, can you?

Granted, you were rather slow in quoting from my post (too many big words?) but I always think it's hilarious when you predict some fool will do something, and then they do exactly as you say they will, in a matter of mere minutes. But.... Clop....? C'mon, you can surely do better than that.... can't you? Even "Shee-baaa" looks like the work of a comic genius in comparison.

[huntjuliehunt]

Guys,

Why is it, on so many of these forums, people are so snotty and always looking for something in a post to argue with? What is the purpose? Why can't people answer people's questions, or not... and save arguing for comments made that really deserve them? I really don't get this; I don't live in Saudi Arabia, and I haven't posted a lot on here yet. The same kind of messages always showed up on the South Korea forum when I lived there. I wish you'd all take a look at the way you respond, and observe how you get so caught up in patronizing other posters, or belittling them, or looking for something to take issue with. To me, it shows signs of discontent, bitterness; just plain unhappiness or boredom. Bluntly, I read these posts (not knowing any of you) and think "Gee, they all sound like petty little bi*ches". That said, I'll probably move there, and end up being a hypocrite. I imagine that this kind of jealousy, one upping, whatever else, must have happened a lot less, many years ago, when foreigners lived in Saudi Arabia. Back then, they were probably thrilled to find other foreigners at all. We take so much for granted with the internet.

[ProfessorsWife]

Thanks to those of you that posted replies to my original questions. Much appreciated and all will be taken into considersation when we decide whether or not to accept the position.

[Arab Strap]

[scot47]

It is because Saudi Arabia is full of bitter and twisted TEFL teachers - like me !

They pass their time venting their wrath on these pages !