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Breezy
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 22
Location: Amsterdam
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: The legalities and issues of accepting a contract...? |
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I have just been offered a contract (on the basis that I pass my CELTA) and will be sent to me once I reply.
The thing is, I want to wait before I see if I get another official offer from another school (in case I don't pass my CELTA-which my instructor said DOES happen). I want to make sure that I have secured a job since the second school doesn't require a CELTA.
How do I professionally tell the first school this?
Or...if I am sent the contract, is it not official until I actually sign it? So do I even mention it? I don't want to scare them away.
I've never had to do this before. The only contract that was anything like this was the Au Pair contract, but in my case, the family and I discussed it together and I typed it up on my own
I am not sure what the protocol is for accepting such contracts in such situations.
ANY advice or feedback will help me greatly!
Thank you! |
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BigWally
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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LEGALLY...the only contract that is "binding" is the one that is written in Chinese and signed by you and the owner of the school...
the English contract that you will be sent isn't really worth much more than the paper it's written on...unless of course you are working for a large international chain school, in which case it may be different...but as far as I know, English contracts don't hold up in Taiwanese court...
Also, why does your school require you to pass a CELTA course to work? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| BigWally wrote: |
LEGALLY...the only contract that is "binding" is the one that is written in Chinese and signed by you and the owner of the school...
the English contract that you will be sent isn't really worth much more than the paper it's written on... |
I disagree with you there BigWally.
A contract is legally binding no matter what language it is written in so an all English contract entered into in Taiwan is just as binding as all Chinese one. This is why with bilingual contracts a clause will often be added pointing out which version would prevail in the case of a dispute - and in Taiwan it is generally the Chinese version that is held out as being the decider. This makes sense considering that the school (employer) is Chinese, that the job is in Taiwan, and that the local language and court system is in Chinese too.
OP if you sign a contact overseas before you come and then change your mind there is very unlikely going to be any repercussions here. The school could technically pursue you for breach but I really doubt that they would particularly if they think that you just changed your mind about coming to Taiwan.
Why not just hold the contract from the first school until you are ready to sign it? You run the risk of them giving the job to someone else, but if that happens then you can find a job elsewhere. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: |
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The fact is that once you sign a contract you have waived what few rights you have as a minority worker in the eyes of the ROC government on Taiwan.
Don't sign a contract and the ROC government on Taiwan will not allow you to work or reside in the occupied territories.
Oppression of migrants and immigrants is a fact of life for all of us living under a racist and corrupt foreign occupational government like the ROC on Taiwan.
Good luck!~
A. |
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Breezy
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 22
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the posts.
I wouldn't have signed the contract until I was 100% sure anyway.
I did reply and told them to send me the contracts(both Chinese and English), but would like to wait to sign it until AFTER I pass my CELTA course (which is the basis that they are hiring me anyway)
I hope it doesn't scare them away or cause legal problems. I just want to be prepared because I don't want to screw myself over. |
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BigWally
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
This is why with bilingual contracts a clause will often be added pointing out which version would prevail in the case of a dispute - and in Taiwan it is generally the Chinese version that is held out as being the decider. |
In hindsight, I agree with you Clark.
My point was simply that the Chinese contract is the more important document. So if you are sent an English contract overseas to sign, its essentially more a "letter of intent" than an actually legally binding document. The legal document is the one you sign once you arrive in Taiwan, and you sit down with your Laoban.
Also, from what I've heard the Chinese contract will occasionally be different from the English contract. That is that the Chinese contract contains only the basic requirements of the jobs, (ie. hours to be worked, pay, bonuses, days off) Many of the other stipulations of the job may or may not be left out. Of course this is all though hearsay, as my school offered a bilingual contract. Have you heard anything about this Clark? |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| BigWally wrote: |
| Also, from what I've heard the Chinese contract will occasionally be different from the English contract. That is that the Chinese contract contains only the basic requirements of the jobs, (ie. hours to be worked, pay, bonuses, days off) Many of the other stipulations of the job may or may not be left out. Of course this is all though hearsay, as my school offered a bilingual contract. Have you heard anything about this Clark? |
Yes that is true in some cases - generally when the teacher is offered only an English version of the contract. Although this is legal and binding, the government requires a Chinese version for the work permit application. In some cases a school will prepare a basic Chinese language contract that covers what the CLA needs and have the foreigner sign this.
It is always best to check any Chinese language documentation that you sign of course, but the above situation is not likely to nullify your English language contract especially if the terms are very much different. |
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Breezy
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 22
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your replies!
After having discussed with my mom, this should be obvious I guess.
My step-dad has his contracts both in English and Dutch and of course the Dutch one is binding since the position is in Holland.
As for me, I had no other choice than to secure a job first before coming. I just cannot afford doing it any other way. So if I put myself in a mess here then I will just have to deal with it the best way that I can. I know that isn't the suggestion most of you have made on here, but right now in my current situation, I have no other option. That is why I am trying to prepare myself by getting these documents translated and what not.
Don't get me wrong, I have been reading almost every post on here (positive and negative) and I am really grateful for all of the feedback you have given. I know that NOTHING can prepare me for the culture shock and range of emotions that I am to experience in Taiwan, but it can sure makes things a little easier...
Ok, so back on topic. Here is another question regarding contracts:
Have any of you had your Chinese contracts translated by someone? Were they a professional such as a Lawyer or were they just a friend of a friend or what?
Have you had to have any other documents translated such as a lease agreement etc?
Thank you so much for answering these questions and providing insight!
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BigWally
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 765
Location: Ottawa, CAN (prev. Kaohsiung "the Dirty South")
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| it would be a good idea to have things like leases, or any Chinese document translated for that matter....but in reality it is just a easy to have a Chinese friend or a Chinese speaking friend go with you so they can give you a synopsis of what the document says before signing....full translation is lengthy and costly |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| Make the assumption you will PASS the CELTA - it's not that tough. Lots of last-minute busy work yes, prima-donna instructors yes, but just hunker down and do the work. You'll be fine. |
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Breezy
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 22
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| tedkarma wrote: |
| Make the assumption you will PASS the CELTA - it's not that tough. Lots of last-minute busy work yes, prima-donna instructors yes, but just hunker down and do the work. You'll be fine. |
Thanks tedkarma, that is what I needed. I've been doubting myself over the CELTA since I pretty much bombed the interview (Luckily, my instructor still let me in the class) and that caused serious damage to my self-esteem as I was the only native speaker in the interview. Everyone keeps yelling at me that I will pass it, but somehow, coming from you (maybe because you are on here-a board for teachers), I actually feel better!
As for the last-minute work, I'm really glad to hear you say that as well. I've been studying my grammar books for the past couple of months and just started my teaching book. I haven't even touched my Pre-course tasks(except answering the questions about the teaching book)! I didn't want to do the tasks/assignments at the last minute(by last minute I mean the last 2-3 weeks before the course), but it seems that is the way my study schedule is going, so I don't feel so bad now.
As for the one school, they basically told me to contact them after I've passed the CELTA and if they have job openings they might consider me. So no contract, but I knew that was the risk I was going to take for putting job security first.
And as for finding a translator, surprisingly i have gotten many emails from people in Holland who are either Taiwanese or from the mainland saying they can help! Most are professional and ask for a specific sum of money(that is WAY over my budget), but I am glad that I can at least get this sorted before I leave!
Anyways, thanks for the info! I might end up bumping this thread in a week or so if things go well (PLEASE!!!), but feel free to give any feedback on contracts that you feel you need to express! I need it!
TTYL
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