Job Discussion Forums

[nomadder]

Today I heard about a girl who was in Taiwan for 3 years and swore she'd never go back and a few months after leaving she is going back-for 1 year to make money for a Masters she says.

While I was in Japan a girl left and about 6 months later she was back in the same town, different school.

I wonder how much this happens. Maybe re-adapting to "home" is just too difficult after a certain amount of time away.

Have you heard of other similar cases?

[Jess_Laoshi]

I've personally been "home" from China for three months and can't wait to get on that plane in December and go back. Reverse culture shock was worse for me than the original culture shock of going to China in the first place.

[Roger]

Culture shock and reverse culture shock - the more you talk about them the more you are talking them into existence. I have probably never had eiter. I still vividly remember the days when I lived in a Western country. I would still have the same motivation to come here, and I am never going to miss China per se. It's an unique experience that I can not replicate elsewhere although unique experiences are to be had just about anywhere.

Come to think of it: my first school employed an American, and due to his brother being a VIP inside some university that had business dealings with Chinese universities he could keep his job for 7 years by the time I arrived.
I left after only one term, and he signed on again. NOt that he was particularly happy with the school, nor actually unhappy either. You get so inured to the unhurried lifestyle here...
BUt he was in for some rude awakening when he wanted to renew his contract for an eleventh year.
The PSB let him know that he could not stay unless he became a Chinese national!

He couldn't speak any Chinese. Now tell me where the hell is this guy's place in this world? Don't worry - he found a new employer in Peking, 2300 kms away.

[fat_chris]

God, yet another expat who doesn't speak the lingo after a long stay

Roger, are you really telling me that after 10 years in China, this bloke couldn't speak any Chinese?

If so, that just bothers me.

[richard ame]

Hey Chris why does that surprise or bother you I know people who have being in this country for more than 25 years and their Turkish is worse than mine and its crap. Some people are just not natural learners of another language but it doesn't stop them living or staying in their host country for a long time .Turkish people I know went to Oz over 30 years ago and they still don't use or understand English so what!!!

[denise]

I am equally disturbed that someone could live in a country for 10 years, or 25, 30, 76, whatever, and not speak the language. Somehow I see a big difference between westerners (particularly EFLers) not learning the host language and non-westerners not learning English.

Before I continue, let me ready my flame-retardant.

For the vast majority of us Westerners, traveling to/living and working in other countries is a lark. An exotic adventure. True, it is a career for a good many of us, but that does not lessen the adventure. Us not trying to learn the local language shows, to me, a great insensitivity. True, Richard Ame, we are not all natural language learners--so we may not SUCCEED at learning the language. That does not mean we should not try. Sticking in tight-knit little expat communities and speaking in English 24/7 kinda defeats one of the purposes of us being wherever we are.

For many non-Westerners, living in Western places is not a lark, but a chance to survive, support a family at home, etc. Not quite as exotic as our lifestyle. Them sticking to their ethnic communities and functioning in their L1s is (again, only in my humble opinion) more acceptable, because their reasons for being wherever they are are different. There was an earlier thread on imperialism--Westerners "abroad" are far more likely to be guilty of it than non-Westerners.

But I digress. And I can feel the heat already.

Back to the topic--I do know of someone who rebounded. My personal theory is that it was because of the cheap beer.

d

[donfan]

I am about to rebound, although my intention when I returned to Australia never was to settle down for good. One day I will but.

[richard ame]

Thanks Denise for the swift response albiet a predictable one . True there are numbers of xpats who regard their chosen place of work as a stepping stone on their travels and have little or no regard for that place, culture . or language ,however, some of them do get the hang of the language in a short time perhaps the amount of exposure and an over whelming chance to use it may be factors here . Sadly I have yet to join that crowd but at least I have tried and still do grapple with it on a daily basis ,I hasten to add that I am not a member of the xpat crowd who are here to save the country from what ever linguist horrore they think abound here and I don't even eat English food any more can't abide the stuff a bit like the people of the damned place is that a rebound ???

[struelle]

[Cleopatra]

As someone about to depart Saudi Arabia after two years, this discussion is pertinent to me!

Lots of people end up coming bakc here (less so than in the past) both for the money and the incredibly easy lifestyle. Strangely enough, those who come back are often those who go on about how they cant stand the place and how they hate the Aye-rabs, and yet when they go home and realize that having white skin doesnt make people act deferentially to them, and that they will have to pay bills and rent at the end of each month, then, life among the Aye-rabs doesn't seem that bad after all...

I agree with Denise re language learning. Nobody is saying that everyone is a born linguist, and you don't have to be fluent in the local language - but you could at least try! Here in KSA, it's 100% normal for people who have been living here for a decade and more to completely unapolegetically say that they don't speak a word of Arabic, and have no intention of learning. Guess what, the "Westerners" are the biggest culprits for this offence!

[Capergirl]

[denise]

When I returned from the Czech Republic, I went straight into an MA program--never had to adjust to "normal" life in the States, as all of the new people I was surrounded by were doing almost the exact same thing with their lives. There was no reverse culture shock, because I still had a cozy little EFL world around me. And since there was no shock, I didn't feel compelled to leave again as soon as possible--even though that's what I ended up doing.

Back to the language learning issue. Capergirl--I am in the same situation with Czech--two years, and I could do the basics, order food, get myself around the country, etc. I did study and didn't spend all of my time in expat places, but I never got beyond the fundamentals. I feel like I need to backtrack from my earlier post so as not to appear hypocritical!! I do think people should be able to take care of themselves in the local language, but fluency is a whole 'nother issue.

[Roger]

On the issue of learning one's host country's language:
yes, indeed, that guy could not speak Mandarin after having spent seven years here. I do not know if he learnt it in the coming three years, though.
But then again, is this really surprising? To tell you the truth, I am more amazed at finding out how many of us actually do speak Mandarin or Cantonese, or even both (and I am not necessarily talking about myself - my Chinese is a survival variant).
The thing is that neither do we come here for good, nor do our hosts expect us to know their lingo. Call it "cultural darwinism" (if that notion does exist, I mean the belief by most East Asians that only themselves can master their own language, all other humans being intellectually-challenged).
Then there is another reason - most of us come here for adventure, and we reckon we will return to our own countries after a few years. (How terribly wrong I was in my own case!).
In fact, a sizeable portion of migrants the world over are unable to communicate with the natives of their chosen host countries in their language - once you are past 25, 30 years of age and you are forced by circumstances to start a new life in a foreign country you are not very likely to pick up a new language. How many Russians in Israel or Germany speak the local tongue? How many Chinese II's speak Japanese, English or French?
Still, that guy still leaves me puzzling. Why does an educated young man from an intact family move to China (he moved there in 1987 - long before the first McDonald's arrived in China!), never thinking where he will spend his more mature years? He was no teacher by training so I suppose his immersion in CHinese society and life will hardly benefit him anywhere outside of China.

[cabbagehead]

[Jess_Laoshi]

About language, I don't find it that strange that there are people living in their host country for a long time but who still don't speak the language.

I'm an American, and there are plenty of people who have been living here for years who don't speak English. ESL classes in my school growing up had a pretty even mix of kids who were recent arrivals and kids who had been born in America. You'd think that in America, you'd need English to survive, but not so. Especially if you arrived as an adult and escaped the school system, you could spend the rest of your life in this country and never learn English. My best friend's mother is Cambodian-Chinese who came here in the early 80s and still only speaks Khmer and Chaozhou, even though her children are fluent English speakers.

Learning a language requires an active effort. If you're not forced to learn it by necessity, or if you don't force yourself to learn it, you're not just going to pick it up, especially as an adult. In China, it's surprisingly easy to get by day-to-day with extremely little Chinese. If you're not using it, you're not going to learn it.

On culture shock, I'll agree as well that it was really disappointing how disinterested everyone back home was about my time in China. After the initial returning home question frenzy, they were over it. I don't really hold it against them, after all, they weren't there and don't like to be continually reminded of how much fun they didn't have. However, it does at times make me feel like China was all just some strange dream, which too me is the worst part.