Job Discussion Forums

[NadineD]

I was wondering if anyone could give more insight into the EF (or any other schools) that they are working at. It seems as though the EF schools are either hit or miss. I have a teaching degree and experience teaching ESL. I am looking for a stable job with decent resources and reasonable pay. Obviously the working conditions are the most important part of any job. The co-workers and directors make or break a teacher's experience. I am not very familiar with Indonesia. I would prefer a location closer to a beach rather than a chaotic city (although I don't really want to be stuck in the boonies, either). I am wondering what salary is reasonable. I'm also interested to hear how other females are finding things there. I lived in Asia for two years and know that things can be very different for guys than girls. If I decide to go to Indonesia, it would not be until at least September. I would really appreciate any advice that anyone is willing to share!

Thanks!
~Nadine

[laughing_magpie06]

On a scale of 1 - 10 of the EF schools that I have worked at I rate EF Cibubur a 7 (Dubious Manager but otherwise well treated and paid on time, staff nice and friendly); EF Matraman a 5 (OK but no full time positions available and not very organised) and EF West Jakarta a 3 (badly managed, backstabbing managers and staff morale very low-I will admit though that it has been some time since I worked there and the DOS who created most of the problems has since departed so who knows)

[Cardinal Synn]

Imagine you worked in the food service industry. Would you rather work in McDonalds or a nice little restaurant with intimate tables and low lighting, serving fine wine and excellent food?
If it's the first, then go ahead and work for EF.
If it's the latter, take a bit more time and find the best employer you can.

[malu]

Just look at the job ads here at Dave's. EEP in Bandung, AEC in Medan... probably soon there will be TBI Bogor as well.

[Cardinal Synn]

What I have noticed in regard to teachers who say they have worked for a "good" EF in Indonesia is this: Very often it is their first job with an English language school so they don't have much to compare it with. They are perhaps unaware that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't be treated with respect, paid a reasonable salary, given a timetable that suits you and not feel slightly embarrased everytime you mention who you work for.

You can have a nice place to live and you can feel appreciated. If the above sounds like idealistic nonsense, then you haven't found a good school to work for.

There is no reason why a teacher living in the UK, USA, Canada, Australia or New Zealand and who can afford to fly out to Indonesia (with some spare cash), should let themselves be shamelessly exploited by poor employers who see them as nothing more than a cash cow with few rights. Most of the people who come out to Indo to teach can afford to be a little choosey. It surprises me how many aren't. Time and time again teachers appear on the forums complaining about schools which have long had bad reputations, yet they have worked for them rather than taking the time and making the effort to find the best employer they can.

We owe it to ourselves and to other teachers not to be so readily exploitable.

Oops, I'm ranting again

[Dave Nesbit]

Being a former EF employee I regularly read these boards with interest and quite often find myself nodding in agreement at some of the stuff written and opinions voiced (Cardinall's post above), while other times I find my mouth dropping open in horror. The thread regrding the chap at Cenkareng is a good case in point.

During my three and a half years at EF I only worked for one franchise but was able to get an insight into some of the others, and it is true that although all share the same name, each franchise is, in practice, run very differently. Unfortunately, the bad practices leading to the bad reputations of certain schools and franchises end up affecting the name of EF as a whole.

Now, EF is obviously a different type of business entity and in a different market to National Plus or International Schools. It is achknowledged as being at entry or starting point for teachers, due mainly to the salaries that it pays. Could EF afford to pay better salaries? Certainly, in some cases.

Academically and professionally things vary from franchise to franchise, as pointed out above, as do the opportunities for professional development. Now, this is where opinions and advice are of most help to people job searching. Most of the posts here do provide such service and people reading through the various threads and posts can pick up on various aspects and have a good idea of places to avoid.

However, in my opinion, EF is, generally speaking, a reasonable place to start a career in ESL. The franchise in which I worked was well managed, with open and honest and non-backstabbing managers and staff morale was very high. I will admit though that it has been some time since I worked there and the few incompetent teachers who were unable to make it through their probationary periods, and so who created any problems that did exist, have long since departed, so who knows.

[Salam]

Good to hear Dave. I've often heard of many EFs that are not so bad. Do you mind telling us which one you were at? I'm sure many of the new teachers would appreciate knowing where one of the good ones can be found.

[tanyakenapa]

Hi,

I've actually had a job interview with Dave at EF about 2 and a half years ago... however the only reason I didnt take the job with EF was that it was too far from where I was living

I would have had to move to the area which was closer...but also on the same day of the interview I was offered another job, both were pretty much the same rates of pay, but of course I chose the job that was closer to my place of residence at the time hehehee.. And I'm still here now

From the way that EF welcomed me at the time of interview and a tour of the classrooms etc I would say it was pretty good working conditions (actually a better building to the one where I am now) and the staff were very professional

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[Dave Nesbit]

Why would anyone work there for 3 years 1/2 years? Sorry, but WHY?

Perhaps I am weird but I really enjoyed it I thought it was a good place to work and the teachers, management and staff were good chaps and chapesses...

Salam. It was EF West Jakarta. (kebon jeruk, karawaci and meruya)

Tanya. Think I remember you

[NadineD]

Thanks for the advice. It still seems like either you get a good EF school and love it or a bad one and hate it. Are their other schools anyone would recommend?

[phis]

The Australia Centre, Medan, North Sumatera. Highly recommended, and they are looking for people at the moment. Pm me for contact details. Also any of the TBI (The British Institute) schools. Some of the TBI franchises are beginning to drift a little in the high standards set by Head Office, but they aren't allowed to get away with too much and are quickly brought back into line. Still a fairly safe bet as far as conditions and salaries are concerned.

[guruengerish]

Perhaps I am weird but I really enjoyed it Very Happy I thought it was a good place to work and the teachers, management and staff were good chaps and chapesses...

Salam. It was EF West Jakarta. (kebon jeruk, karawaci and meruya)

Pleasing to see that I'm not on my own in regards to EF West JKT. I was at Kebun Jeruk for almost 2 years, and they were a good bunch to work for, apart from the weirdo DoS types they got in.

They forced out a very good professional teacher and DoS soon after I started, and boy, did they get in some odd ones in after that. Management were good and caring, but they didn't have a lot of luck at choosing a DoS.

After further experience at other schools, I came to realise that space for "activities while learning" is not a bad thing, which few EF schools have.

[Dave Nesbit]

Guru...

Think our times at EF WJKT couldn't have overlapped. I was there from march '03.

It still remains one of the better franchises with pretty good and solid dos types these days. The owners still put their backs into making the place work and do what they can for the teachers..