Job Discussion Forums

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

and then, discrimination is alive and well, and will never cease to exist.
There is a "positive" kind of discrimination. First of all, "discrimination" means nothing more sinister than "marking the boundaries" or "establishing an identity", that is, to categorise. For those on the inside this is good, for the rest it means being disadvantaged.
You can even say that requiring TEFLers to be certified and qualified is "discrimination". It is, and then again, it is not because it is in the well-defined interests of many non-teachers themselves, the students for example.
Religion is a membership in an exclusive club. They have every reason and right to sort chaff out.
I can't understand why it has been declared illegal for advertisers to specify the gender in some professions (in some countries anyway).
Race? There are jobs that evidently are better filled by members of certain ethnic groups. A social worker may be judged by his or her clientele according to his own skin colour and potential linguistic equipment.
This need not be a step in affirmative action - which, as many claim, has boomeranged into a new form of ostracism. Just hearing complaints from racial minorities in Hong Kong, you get the feeling that if the social services had more Nepalese, Indian and Pakistani staff a lot of demoralising pressure would come off poor second-generation South Asian immigrant descendants.

Pictures in your job applications - why, that's so common here. Maybe they are looking for Barbie and Ken, so what? We are not being taken seriously in our capacity as teachers. We are white flesh (or brown sometimes, not to mention red, yellow and black).
Before the Internet came here, your best bet was to go for a person-to-person interview. Tell me: do you believe your face had no selling point then?

Psy · Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Posts: 10 Location: Peace Bridge

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

dyak · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 630

Gotta be useful when they're looking for you at the airport though...

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

Well, I'm damn good looking, so the photo thing only really works in my favour Wink

But seriously, I can understand that employers want to see what the potential teachers look like before they hire them - particularly when the students (customers) demand Barbie and Kens.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

I hate to admit it but when I was doing recruitment pretty females(who were qualified) usually got the job.

dyak · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 630

Capergirl · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:15 pm Post subject:

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Sparkly Capergirl is back. Welcome.
Tired of the bird?

Dyak,
I think you misunderstood your students, they really meant women were better to look at than men.

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

Is this discrimination ???

Against whom ??

[/quote]Row over student's Caucasian club
By Maggie Shiels
in Oakley, California

To some, 15-year-old Lisa McClelland is a heroine - while to others she is public enemy number one.
One thing she herself says she is not is a racist, as she defends her attempts to start a "Caucasian club" at her California high school.

"I think I am doing a great thing," she told BBC News Online in the garden of her home in Oakley, 50 miles east of San Francisco.

"I'm trying to break racial barriers.

"Without a Caucasian club things at school are kind of segregated and I think if we have a Caucasian club it will go along with the rest of the race clubs so the school might be a little bit more diverse."

There are all these other racial clubs but there isn't a Caucasian club
Lisa McClelland, at home with friends
The school is already home to the Black Student Union, the Asian Club and Latinos Unidos, an Hispanic club.
Pupils of all races can join any of the groups but Lisa says she does not fit in and believes her Caucasian club will help bridge the gap for many.

"I came home from school one day, the day we were signing up for clubs, and I didn't see any that really interested me.

"We were talking about how there are all these other racial clubs but there isn't a Caucasian club and me and my mom talked about it and how there would be nothing wrong with trying to get it started."

But ever since Lisa went public, she and the school have been in the spotlight.

The topic is a regular staple on American cable programmes and the favourite punch bag of right wing radio talk shows.

School principal Eric Volta has found the attention overwhelming but perhaps understandable.
"A club by that name tends to make people nervous. Even school administrators as far as what it's purpose is," he said.

"As long as it stays positive, it's not a problem."

And Lisa promises that it will be.

"It will be where kids can go and learn about their heritage and break down their culture more than the school does. Any race can join."

Divided opinions

A snapshot of opinion outside the school gates found support for the idea mixed, and centring on the race issue.

Patricia backs the club on one condition: "I think it would be okay as long as it wasn't meant to be racist."

Shayna, 15, does not understand what all the fuss is about.
"I really don't think it should be that big of a deal because there's the BSU [Black Student Union] and all that stuff already."

Angel, 16, applauds Lisa's idea.

"More power to her. We should have more white clubs around here."

Melissa, also 16, said: "I don't think it will cause any racial problems because there were no problems when the black club and the Asian club were being set up."

But 14-year-old African American Tarryn disagrees.

"It's dumb, real dumb. The girl says 'we want to talk about our background,' well their background is about putting black people as slaves."

Another 14 year old, Joe, is equally critical.

"I think it's really stupid. It's just racial separation and we got rid of that a long time ago."

Noose

Indeed some believe the whole affair has opened up old racial wounds within the school and the district.

Two years ago a swastika and anti-minority flyers were found in the boy's bathrooms at the school.

A black teacher found a noose made out of a shoelace hanging on the doorknob of his classroom in 2001 and tension mounted when a rope noose was discovered hanging from a tree on another school campus in the district last year.

Lisa McClelland said she had been on the receiving end of some racist barbs herself.
While she shrugs them off as part of the media circus, her mother Debbi Neely isn't so nonchalant.

"I'm very concerned about that and I'm keeping a close eye on it."

Darnell Turner of the local chapter of the NAACP civil rights group said of Lisa's club: "If her motivation is to bring harmony, as she alleges, this is not the way to go."

But far from having a negative impact on the school, Principal Volta says Lisa's proposed club has sparked a great debate.

"The level of conversation our students are having about their heritage, their culture, their background, fairness, equity and civil rights has been a very positive thing out of this experience."

Over the next two weeks Lisa plans to draw up the club's constitution and find a faculty adviser.

Ultimately the decision to give it a green light will lie with the principal, who said: "I will base it on what's fair and what's right for the students at Freedom High School."

Lisa says that if the proposal is rejected she and her mother will consider legal action.

Debbi Neely said: "I've raised my kids to be open-minded and I think at that point it would become a discrimination issue just due to the fact they have a black student union, a Latino club and an Asian club and at that time I would definitely file for discrimination."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/education/3143760.stm

Capergirl · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 5:47 pm Post subject:

khmerhit · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 5:57 pm Post subject:

My friend completed a CELTA course last nite and i went along for the post-course drinks session. The people were pretty ordinary, and one was downright thick. Apparently, he told the instructors and people on the course "I'm thick," and struggled with even the basics. He managed a pass though. Of course, he is young good looking and has a winning personality, and female students and and trainees were after him like flies on shit. Do you think he will have any problems finding work?

Capergirl · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:12 pm Post subject:

@khmerhit...I'm sure he will do very well in Asia. Wink

When the ex and I were talking to our recruiters prior to going to South Korea, the recruiters (Koreans) told us straight up that it was the blonde female the schools wanted and my ex (then-bf) was just a part of the deal. They didn't give a rat's you-know-what if I could teach. They didn't care if I had any brains at all, really. Laughing

Our boss in Taiwan wanted us to help him find new teachers to replace us after we finished our contracts. He told us the applicants should be young (preferably under 30), white, and good-looking...a couple or two females. So that's discrimination based on age, race, sex, and appearance (attractiveness). However, the most qualified applicants did not meet his criteria. We told him this, but (big surprise) he didn't care. Rolling Eyes

fat_chris · Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 3198 Location: Beijing

And then the administrators wonder why they have all sorts of problems and why the students are upset that they aren't learning when they hire unqualified teachers.

*SIGH* Confused

A pet peeve of fat_chris