Job Discussion Forums

[dfields3]

I was just wondering if there was anyone on here who is teaching in mexico and is gay. I am going to guadalajara soon and was curious what it is like as far as being gay goes. I'm not a huge feminine/flamer type and no one would ever know I was gay unless I told them. I was just wondering if this is something common in mexico or is it still really conservative. Do I need to be really reserved? Is being out in mexico a wise decision? I typically don't hide anything and am pretty upfront and honest but like I said i'm not a ragingly feminine gay guy to begin with.

[sunrader]

Guadalajara is the San Francisco of Mexico. Other places might be quite conservative, but not Guadalajara. You see many couples in the streets. There is a little gay bar-like place around the corner from ITTO (look for the red bead curtain and lights). Other gay Americans I knew there were very comfortable.

[tagastelum]

Your question merits a complicated answer.

Not that you implied as much, but Mexico is culturally unlike the rest of North America, and most especially with regard to the gay issue. If you attempt to view gay Mexico in the same terms used north of the border, I believe you'll remain confused, before growing frustrated and possibly even bitter.

I live in Monterrey, Mexico's third metropolis, with a population around 4 million. A cosmopolitan hybrid of Latin American and US cultures, you'd expect the city to boast a well-developed gay community. While it does boast a growing scene, gay life -- as it is lived in the US and Canada -- is mostly restricted to nights and weekends here. Socializing still revolves around bars and house parties. Forget gay bowling leagues. Forget gay AA. Here, it's like 1972. Gays are in the news, but "gay pride" hasn't quite emerged.

This may sound dire, but it's not. Remember, it's just different. I've found that most Mexicans treat homosexuality the same way they treat any issue they find unsettling: they ignore it. It's not that they pretend to not see it; they really do not see those things that challenge their world view. How does this work? Here's my experience.

I moved here from Chicago with my partner of six years. He's from a small country town about an hour and a half south of Monterrey. It may not be Marlboro Country, but it's close. His family knows that we've been friends for six years. They know that we live together. They know that we are economically interdependent. They know that we don't have girlfriends. They know that we sleep in the same bed when we visit their home. So, do they know we're a couple? The question is moot. It doesn't matter because they don't see it. They have only ever treated me with love and respect and they have made me a part of their family. My suegrita calls me her "other son." The whole situation used to stress me out. But I've accepted it for what it is. What is it? It is what it is.

I work in a Catholic high school. I'd estimate that one-half of the male teachers are gay. Some are ex-seminarians. Some of us aren't religious in the slightest. If the students don't like you, they openly question your sexuality. If they do like you, they don't notice your sexuality. Even if they think they know what your sexuality is, they ignore it. It works the same with my colleagues. Don't ask, don't tell.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Unlike in the "liberal" US, I seldom hear of Mexican children tossed out of their homes by their families for being gay. It just isn't done here. Of course, there can be tension; yes, it can get hot in the kitchen, but you would never throw your child out onto the street. "How could anyone treat a member of their own family like that?"

In city and town alike, se�oras sing praise on the jotito who styles their hair. They love Juan Gabriel, who is as effeminate an entertainer as ever there was. However, if their own son were to exhibit the same characteristics, they wouldn't even notice them. See how this works?

There is much macho posturing here. Still. Men talk trash among themselves, making violent homophobic comments about gays. The flip side is that many of these same men have had sex with other men. But as long as they are the active partner, they're not a joto, so no harm done. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

That said, Mexican gay culture now appears to increasingly mimic gay life "as seen on TV" in North America and Europe. No place more than Mexico City. But the capital is an anomaly. (Heck, even abortion has been legalized there, and I don't expect that to occur anywhere else in the republic anytime soon.) Watching Mexican media gives the impression that all of Mexico is a liberal society. It's not. Only Mexico City is. From what I've heard, even Guadalajara is far from being the liberal bastion it's painted to be. Tapatio friends have described the city as remaining true to its conservative heart. If anything, GDL's gay reputation has served to put its heterosexual male residents on the offensive; make a wrong move and you're likely to end up wounded and bleeding in the street.

And of course, in every city you will meet people who are open and accepting. You'll know where people stand on the issue the more you get to know them. If they ask you if you're gay, it generally means that they're prepared for an affirmative response and will be supportive. This is even more true among middle class young people, who have grown up with more-or-less positive media representations of gay people on cable tv, just as in the US and Canada. But I still maintain that it's best to not volunteer the information without being asked.

I hope this isn't too rambling a post. I just want to spread as much information as I can so that my gay colleagues have an idea of what they're in for south of the border. Peace.

[danielita]

[chichifo]

Your question was if Guadalajara is gay friendly, yes, in general is gay friendly, but also it will depend on the way you interact with people. You don�t have to pretend that you�re straight in order to be accepted by people, they are going to accept you for your human qualities. Regarding the guy who lives in Monterrey, I was in Monterrey some years ago as I had a bf down there; everybody (even straight friends) knew we were gay and did not have any problems. My idea is that if you interact with closeted people, you�ll have closeted social circle.
Monterrey maybe not be like Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico City or Acapulco, but certainly there�s gay activism going on. They are having a gay pride march http://www.nlincluyente.org/Inicio.htm and also they a sexual diversity cultural festival which is sponsored by local authorities and gay groups.
http://www.gaymty.com/index.php?categoryid=24&p2_articleid=30

Regarding the gay bowling leagues and all that "gay thing", I dont agree with it, I believe in integration, and I�m very satisfied that Mexico is not moving in creating a gay world separated from the straight society, and this is reflected by activists� discussions that focus on the notion of sexual diversity. And it�s not just Mexico City that recognizes same-sex couples but also the state of Coahuila, similar legislations are expected to be lobbyed in another states. I�m out of the closet and so are my gay friends, we live in a very tranquil way, but hardly ever go to gay clubs, but we do participate in gay prides and festivals. I�m from a small city, Colima, and one of my friends is teacher in a elementary school and all his collegagues know he�s gay and they dont have issues about it. My friend works in a public school. Another friend, a transgender, worked as a librarian at the University of Colima, he�s retired now. He never had problems about the way he dressed at work.

[J Sevigny]

I'm not gay but I do live in Guadalajara and we have a number of openly gay teachers where I work. They don't seem to have any problems at the school or at the companies where they are sent to teach.

That said, anyone moving to Mexico has to be prepared for some blunt comments about things such as homosexuality. In a country where fat kids are affectionately called "gordos," skinny girls are labelled "flacas," it follows that homosexuals are often called "jotitos," to their faces with no real malicious intent. I'm not making a judgement on the cultural practice but if you're sensitive to being labelled, beware

Regarding the idea that Guadalajara is Mexico's San Francisco, and that it's not a conservative city, I disagree. Regarding acceptance of homosexuality, Guadalajara seems relatively open, and there are at least a dozen gay bars downtown. But in nearly every other aspect of life, this is a conservative, Catholic stronghold.

[chichifo]

Some have considered Guadadalajara as San Francisco mainly because of the gay scene. There are about 50 gay venues, which is a large number considering the size of this city (http://www.gaygdl.com/lugares.html). Also the gay pride march gathers thousands of people every year (www.marchagaygdl.com). Moreover, it�s not unusual to see many gay people in downtown, especially at night and during the day, in Plaza Tapatia, some visitors have described Guadalajara as gay as West Hollywood and San Francisco. Ironically, in terms of gay rights, comprared to other states, Jalisco is still behind; the local Congress still needs to penalize discrimination and to recognize same-sex couples; local gay activists are exerting pressure on these issues; but maybe the conservative party members think, if they approve these laws, Jalisco will be gayer than ever, nonetheless to say that Puerto Vallarta is a municipality of the state of Jalisco. In other states, it�s illegal to discrminate on grounds of sexual orientation and debates on recognizing sames-sex couples are currently taking place in the state of Veracruz, Chihuahua, and Guerrero.

[twilightsummers]

Any comments on the scene for gay/bi women? Not just GDL, but anywhere you might be familiar with? When I was in Seoul, the options for women were limited to a few bars and one social outing group. I'd be happy with as much in Mexico!

[chichifo]

Hi Twilightsummers,

Yes, in Guadalajara, lesbians have played an important role in activism. Patlatonalli is the oldest lesbian activist group in Mexico; last year they celebrated their 20th birthday. In Guadalajara, there�s a club just for lesbians, although in other places such as Butterflies and SOS, most of their customers are lesbians. In Mexico City, lesbians have a strong presence, there�s even a lesbian pride parade:
http://www.marchalesbica.org.mx

Many people really ignore that the Mexican gay movement is the oldest in Latin America, started in 1972. The Mexican Gay Liberation Front was led by a lesbian, Nancy Cardenas. Other Mexican intellectuals such as Carlos Monsivais and Luis Gonzalez de Alba participated in this Front.
In 1997, Patria Jimenez was the first federal deputy, openly lesbian, to be elected in Latin America. Later, in Mexico City�s local Congress, Enoe Uranga, a lesbian local deputy, introduced the bill to recognize same-sex couples; unfortunately for her, as she put a lot of effort in preparing this bill, the deputies could not vote it. It was a very embarrassing moment, in Mexico City, in order to approve a law you need a certain number of deputies during the session, so the members of the consertive party left the session when they were about to vote the bill, making it difficult to have the legally required quorum to approve this bill. Last year, the local congress finally approved that bill, which was put on discussion by a gay deputy.
Socially, I have noticed that lesbians do not tend to interact about bars and clubs, they tend to gather around politcal and cultural events. That might be a product of the ways women socialize in Mexico. Compared to other countries, such as England, where it�s not unusual to see a woman on her own in bars. In Mexico, that�s hardly ever the case. Of couse, this does not mean that lesbians don�t go to gay bars, they do, but in a smaller number compared to gay men. Also they are not as invisible as you expect. Sabrina Sabrok, a TV presenter, although she is married and with a child, she admits to be bisexual and suports gay rights. Chabela Vargas, she�s a lesbian singer who speaks openly about her lesbianism; she was in the film Frida, signing "Llorona". This is a lesbian magazine where you can find more info about lesbian issues and venues. All is Spanish.
http://www.lesvoz.org.mx/

[El Gallo]

Fortunately, people in Chiapas are more tolerant of gays now (ignoring them) than they were a few years back. Seems as if the governor went to a gay party in the late '90s and someone took a video. 13 gays and transvestites were murdered on the streets of Tuxtla as a result. The bullets where high caliber similar to those only used by the state police. Now, there are gays and transvestites in Tuxtla but everyone seems to ignore them. The young men point and laugh at the most effeminate but I haven't heard of any anti-gay violence.

I guess times are changing for the better here. There is no longer a governor who throws journalists in prison for criticizing him either.