Job Discussion Forums

JonnyB61 · Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 216 Location: Japan

Learned Colleagues,

I appreciate that you are all fed up with meaningless polls, but I'd like to invite you to participate in this one.

Perhaps you could consider it to be in the advancement of understanding of this mishmash of a language which is still, laughably, called English.

Thank you for your time and effort in replying.

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

I thought yen = dollar, but Japanese of course. I have one dollar. I have two dollars. Just because Japanese doesn't distinguish between singular/plural shouldn't make all Japanese words non-count, should it?

I mean, I can definitely count yen. It's not like some amorphous substance like water. I'll have 3.45 liters of yen, please.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject:

Yen is clearly countable. The fact that one can talk about a 500 yen beer attests to that fact and distinguishes it from "money" (a "500 money beer" sounds silly). How many posters have talked about their "two yens' worth"?

I think people are confused because "yen" is a foreign word and it doesn't have to have a seperate plural form to be a countable noun. However, my mother, bless her, once said to me "Your father and I are going to visit you in Japan and so we have changed some money into yens." She only spoke like that because she doesn't realize that the plural form of yen is yen. She never needed to know that, however there are English teachers here who don't even know that. For shame!

By the way anyone who laughs at my mother is welcome to meet me at 9 o'clock on Sunday morning by the Kamogawa in Kyoto. I'll be the guy holding the board with a nail in it.

JaredW · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject:

Does it matter? Usually when you speak about Yen, you're doing so in Japanese.

But, in case you're wondering, look and see which one sounds better:

How much Yen do you have?
How many Yens do you have?

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject:

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject:

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

Well, not knowing Japanese too well I can't say for sure, but I'd assume there was a Japanese word for "money" that isn't as well known as "yen". In fact, I'm sure I remember remembering it at some time... okane. So it would how much okane do you have or how many yen do you have.

It's a matter of knowing the language you're borrowing the word from well enough to distinguish between the two, I guess. I mean, it sounds fine as non-count, but once you get okane in your head as well, it will probably start sounding a lot less fine.

I think the real problem is people rarely say, "how many dollars do you have?" They usually say, "how much [money] do you have?" (in English,at least). If okane was as well known as yen (understandably it is not) there would be no problem, but yen is serving as a stand-in since, I assume, fewer foreigners actually know okane.

JaredW · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject:

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

hrm... I thought sheep was count, since it would be many sheep (or a sheep, or three sheep), just that sheep, like yen, doesn't have a plural form. Sheep wouldn't logically fit in the non-count categories I know, but I could be wrong... maybe they're a gas?

Now sheep is doing that "not making sense" thing from over-repetition, so I'll stop there.

furiousmilksheikali · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject:

Too much!

"How many sheep do you have?" is the correct form. What do you mean "sheep" is a non-count noun? Of course you can count sheep. I do it often to get to sleep after talking to mindless miscreants on this forum.

Jared, "yens" is not a proper words either. My dear mother, bless her, says it because she is unsure about how to use this word. She is, however, almost certainly better than you at using Gaelic.

DNK · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 236 Location: the South

I'm a bit confused, as I agree with you, I think.

[after a long paragraph on explaining my position...] oh hell I just got it Mad

why not just say how much money do you have? Why bother saying okane... And I don't even have the excuse of being tired.

So, yes, yen=count, and it wouldn't make sense to begin with to say it as non-count.

Vote: just say how much money do you have. Maybe if you've got American dollars and yen, then perhaps okane to signify which you're referring to?

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

In a sense it is countable, like when you talk about how MANY yen you have, but (did you note the use of singular?) for some reason we don't make this word plural. That happens with some foreign currency. Not all the time, but this is one case.

So, in another sense, it is uncountable.

Let's just say semi-countable and just remember not to pluralize it.

Chris21 · Joined: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 366 Location: Japan

Is it possible to be both?

How much yen do you have?
How many yen to the dolllar?

... both sound ok. Could it's "countability" change depending on context? "Fish" comes to mind as another noun that differs slightly depending on context..

How many fish did you catch? (when talking of an actual fish)
How much fish did you eat? (when talking of fish meat)

Could "yen" work in the same way?

JonnyB61 · Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 216 Location: Japan

If we remember that nouns can be countable in one language and uncountable in another, and vice versa, then we can see that knowing if it is C. or UC. in Japanese is a red herring. We are discussing how we treat the word Yen when we speak English.

Also:

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Of course yen is countable: One yen, two yen, many yen.

Not taking an 's' in the plural does not make a noun uncountable (cf eg 'sheep').