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Mr Quite Happy
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: Salary comparison for a non-teaching job |
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Hi guys,
Forgive my wondering in to your forum but Dave said it was OK.
I've a friend who is looking at an opportunity to move from NYC to Kuwait to work in a banking job. His job pays well (around USD 250,000) and he's wondering what that equals in KWD. Obviously the basic FX rate makes it around 80,000 KWD but do Kuwaiti employers pay less because of the tax situation, or more because of the beer situation. What other perks might he negotiate for, what about his loss of pension?
I guess as far as TEFL etc goes its not too comprable but if you know friends in other jobs perhaps you can share your insight?
Mr QH |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Dave pretty much lets everyone in, but the problem for non-TEFLers is that we rarely have all the information people want... especially in a job ranking that earns about 10 times what we make.  The packages would be comparable, but certainly not equal.
At that salary range US, I should expect that he is able to make a try to negotiate all he wants. He should be provided with free furnished luxury accommodation, annual tickets, a car, and medical/life insurance. A negotiating factor could be the proximity of Iran in case of an expansion of US aggression.
As to pension, he'll be on his own to handle that himself unless he gets a job with an international branch of a US company which may have some kind of 401 plan... but he will likely be on his own here.
As a banker he must know enough about money to be able to calculate whether the pay off is worth giving up the job in NYC.
VS |
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Mr Quite Happy
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Dave pretty much lets everyone in, |
maybe has some impact on the advertising revenues!! just joking, I moderate another site elsewhere and we let anyone in as long as they dt txt spk LOL etc
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but the problem for non-TEFLers is that we rarely have all the information people want... especially in a job ranking that earns about 10 times what we make. The packages would be comparable, but certainly not equal.
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but no sadly no more important...
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| At that salary range US, I should expect that he is able to make a try to negotiate all he wants. He should be provided with free furnished luxury accommodation, annual tickets, a car, and medical/life insurance. A negotiating factor could be the proximity of Iran in case of an expansion of US aggression. |
Thats his and my take on it, but he's worried about priceing himself out of the market at the get-go.
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| As to pension, he'll be on his own to handle that himself unless he gets a job with an international branch of a US company which may have some kind of 401 plan... but he will likely be on his own here. |
Sounds about right, its a Q8y company
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As a banker he must know enough about money to be able to calculate whether the pay off is worth giving up the job in NYC.
VS |
The PPP and the like only goes so far.
FYI (in case you don't know) and anyone else interested PPP = Purchasing power parity. e.g., 10 USD = 2.80 KWD. But 10 USD in US buys 12 eggs, 2 litres of milk, a bottle of Ukrainian champagne and the taxi to get the products from the store home, (for example), those goods and services in KWD might be 40 KWD so as a consequence, the PPP is 1:0.4 and not 1:0.28 delivering a more accurate 'real' exchange rate.
IIRC, PPP doesn't include mortgages but does include rent so particularly useful for expats.
Mr QH |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Quite Happy wrote: |
FYI (in case you don't know) and anyone else interested PPP = Purchasing power parity. e.g., 10 USD = 2.80 KWD. But 10 USD in US buys 12 eggs, 2 litres of milk, a bottle of Ukrainian champagne and the taxi to get the products from the store home, (for example), those goods and services in KWD might be 40 KWD so as a consequence, the PPP is 1:0.4 and not 1:0.28 delivering a more accurate 'real' exchange rate.
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Since expats rarely pay rent as housing is provided that wouldn't be very comparable for us.
But I find this confusing... you are saying that what would cost US$10 would cost 40KD or US$14? Of course it wouldn't be comparable as you can't buy Champagne in Kuwait and you would drive yourself for pennies and not take a taxi. I would say that NYC would be more expensive than Kuwait, while it would be more expensive if you come from Leftovershoe, Nebraska (population 1237).
As to his negotiating power, I wonder about the fact that I don't recall seeing many Westerners in the banks (not that I was often in the main offices). But, management that I saw was other Arabs or Indian... so this MAY depress his pay package. If he is applying to a US related bank, they should be saying what their offer is... and negotiations would go on from there. It would be best if they made the first offer... but he could use his current salary and his expectation that they would provide the 'standard expat package.'
VS |
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Mr Quite Happy
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Since expats rarely pay rent as housing is provided that wouldn't be very comparable for us. |
re TEFL yes, but there are millions of expats and most do not have inclusive contracts with accom and most do not buy (but your point is a good one especially given what site I am currently posting on)
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| But I find this confusing... you are saying that what would cost US$10 would cost 40KD or US$14? |
PPP looks at a standard basket of goods (car insurance, mid size car, shopping for family of 3, a tv, average taxes on earnings etc). So whilst HYPOTHETICALLY an exchange rate might be 1USD=0.28KWD the 'real' living FX rate is 1USD=0.40KWD.
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| Of course it wouldn't be comparable as you can't buy Champagne in Kuwait and you would drive yourself for pennies and not take a taxi. |
I believe alchohol isn't included specifically because its not available everywhere but a cinema ticket / night out average cost may be.
IIRC PPP was created by taking one "average" families expendeture in a year and then identifying the cost of repeating that in the other <200 countries (so I expect it to take into account taxi vs driving yourself and non-alchohol) to get a ratio
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| I would say that NYC would be more expensive than Kuwait, while it would be more expensive if you come from Leftovershoe, Nebraska (population 1237). |
Quite true, but I believe the study and the stats are only kept for national averages so NYC vs Mainz, Germany is not a fair comparison though Buttfeck, Idaho vs Mainz might be. Its useful enough if you consider that most big city people emigrate at least initially to big cities etc etc down the line.
Its not really my idea and the idea has some holes in it BUT it is a reasonable starting point and more accurate than just taking the FX rate. Readers of the Economist might remember the Burgeromics (the cost of the big mac in each country) on the back pages occasionally. This is the same thing.
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| As to his negotiating power, I wonder about the fact that I don't recall seeing many Westerners in the banks (not that I was often in the main offices). But, management that I saw was other Arabs or Indian... so this MAY depress his pay package. |
Noted, he's a bit of a niche skill so won't be accepting too much short of a sharp increase to make it worth his while.
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If he is applying to a US related bank, they should be saying what their offer is... and negotiations would go on from there. It would be best if they made the first offer... but he could use his current salary and his expectation that they would provide the 'standard expat package.'
VS |
Its not, and the HH is asking him to name a number. From a negotiating point of view, I would NEVER name my current salary. Here's an example of a Brit friend, again, just FYI
Neil was earning about 30K in London and got HH approached to do his job for another company. They did the interviews and so forth and at the final one the HR bird asked his current salary.
He refused to name it.
She asked why (somewhat surprised).
He answered "If I tell you what I am on, you will offer me 20-30% more than I am currently on which I may or may not accept. What I want you to do is offer me what I am worth to you, then I will either accept that or not talk to you again".
He got offered just over 60K. Which is a lot more than the 40K he would have taken.
Based on Neil's story to me I tried this once, and bugger me, did it work! So no more sharing of my salary, and I advise everyone to do the same. Hence if my buddy stateside shares his current salary, he's a fool. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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True enough outside of education... we don't have much negotiating power at the better places unless we have something extraordinary on our CV.
I don't know about the situation in banking, but I have known a few engineers who were paid a whopping salary compared to the US plus they were given a daily allowance as the rest of the package. On that allowance they rented a car, rotated between the 5 star hotels using room service for food... flew around the Gulf and nearby environs every holiday and many weekends and saved 100% of that tax free salary plus a large chunk of the allowance left over. (we teachers are really small potatoes... )
Of course, your banker friend would be looking at paying US taxes on most of this income as only the first US$80K+ is exempt.
VS |
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Mr Quite Happy
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Of course, your banker friend would be looking at paying US taxes on most of this income as only the first US$80K+ is exempt.
VS |
He's a republican, serves him right. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| HA! |
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