Job Discussion Forums

[Shan-Shan]

I read this quote from the Analects, and would like to one day use it in promoting an ESL classroom where student initiated inquiry into learning is the kernal of the methodology being implemented. I'd like to read how others feel the quote could be interpreted (out of context, mind you) in relation to gently pushing for reform in language classes in China.

不愤不启，不悱不发。举一隅，不以三隅反，则不复也

Kong zi said: "I never enlighten anyone who has not been driven to distraction by trying to understand a difficulty or who has not got into a frenzy trying to put his ideas into words. When I have pointed out one corner of a square to anyone and he does not come back with the other three, I will not point it out to him a second time".


I've only ever witnessed Chinese ESL classrooms where the teachers point out all four corners of the square for students to copy into the margins of their textbooks. Apathy born from the habit of never initiating a "learning moment"; and anger/challenges in response to the rare second when learning must originate from the inside and work itself outwards.

[johnchina]

Possibly the most useful post anyone has written - apart from mine, of course!

Thanks for sharing that, Shan-Shan. I'll be using it in every class I teach.

[China.Pete]

The philosopher Confucius also said "I hear, I know. I see, I remember. I do, I understand" I believe this says a lot about how we learn things. Confucius came to dominate Chinese culture over the next 2,500 years. Unfortunately, reverence for the ancient philosopher has not always led the educators who followed in Confucius� footsteps to necessarily practice what Confucius preached.

Confucius said, "I hear, I know." And you do not need to remind Chinese students that all knowledge of any importance comes from listening to the teacher - or some such higher authority.

"I see, I remember." All Chinese students have had it drummed into them from a very early age that they must memorize whatever the teacher tells them if they want to do well on their exams. Of course, passing their exams is the only educational outcome that really matters to them.

The logic of this becomes apparent when students actually fail an important exam. They do not have to take the course again. They just have to pay an additional fee to retake the final exam; thus giving them the opportunity to "study harder."

But what would the average Chinese student make of "I do, I understand?" Well, not very much I�m afraid. Because the Chinese education system, based as it is on received knowledge, is not very good at teaching Chinese students to think, or DO, for themselves. They are more accustomed to being spoon-fed.

[sheeba]

Shan Shan wrote
'anger/challenges in response to the rare second when learning must originate from the inside and work itself outwards.'

Referring to modern approaches 'anger challenges 'feature as a part of the theory of learning for Community Language Learning oped by Charles A.Curran -a specialist in counseling .In this learning theory aggression applies to the way in which a child , having learned something, seeks an opportunity to show his strength by taking over and demonstrating what has been learned, using the knowledge as a tool for self-assertion. CLL compares language learning to stages of human growth. There are 5 stages . At stage 3 - 'the separate-existence stage' learners begin to understand others directly in the target language. Learners will resent uninvited assistance provided by the knower/parent.

Problems with the approach - To encourage the aggression from the 'adolescent' and for independence to be reached is a skill that usually requires special training. Where is the evidence that learning in classrooms indeed parallels the processes that characterize pyschological learning?
I personally feel that the old 'levels' problems makes this approach very difficult to implement in class. For me to help 'Oral beginners'(that's mostly what I am dealing with) I feel that the students need more of a gentle submersion focusing initially on comprehensible input in the target language and gradually progressing to communication . Not to say that later on in a course we couldn't use these techniques but you have to really have made progress with the whole class . Other factors of course often delay this progress .[/quote]

[vikdk]

Shan Shan wrote

[InTime]

Has anyone visited those new Neo-Confucian schools sprouting up for the Eastern noveaux riche kids? I wonder if they use Confucian (or Pavlovian)principles in their English classes.

Keep in mind that both the Sun Yat Sen/Republic and the Communist
Civil Wars/Revolutions/Liberations...were focused upon ridding China of FEUDALISM...which was supported/manipulated by the Confucian powersa-that-be for centuries...

Gordon Dryden, whose book The Learning Revolution, sold 10 million copies, has emphasived the progressive edu-elements in the original teachings of Master Kong Zi...nice point about heuristic/"Discovery Method' approach...show one corner, and have the students find the others

Krashen's AFFECTIVE FILTER remains relevant for FTs in the China classroom. Too many of these folks are experiencing cerebral (b)lockage...from lack of whole-brained/emotion-filled English-learning processes/environments...which is why I specialize in "Other Than":
*movies
*role play
*songs

Re: Vikdk and neurons firing

BELOW was just posted on the Promoting Change thread on this China Job page...

[LongShiKong]

How much does one's language shape one's thinking?

[Anda]

I am currently having fun with training Elementary public school teachers. I have been teaching ordinary conversation with them for some time, The last fortnight however I have been starting off children's conversations with them in class on the blackboard. Changing the genra so to speak.

He, he it is a laugh as most of them can't simplify their conversation to that of a child yet the are training to teach them!

So Shan-Shan where would student initiated inquiry into learning as the kernal of the methodology being implemented get me with them?

I think that they would have to go to a school of The philosopher Confucius as exist in South Korea for quite a time to get their minds around the concept!

[InTime]

Ancient Taoism founder is Lao Zi
Note...it's not called LaoZi'ism

Chuang Zi (who came later, as did Socrates to Plato)
wrote irreverently/humorously of encounters between near contemporaries Lao Zi and Kong Zi...
LZ called KZ's focus upon principles/LI...
...to be like an xtra finger in the habd
...getting in the way of the Natural/"zi ran"

Tai Jee Pushing Hands etc. training is an excellent to recover/manifest/empower...
ZI RAN/Natural...

Personally, I have decided to continue/expand my long-standing commitment to "deschooling society"/whole-brained/LearningCommunity approaches.
A great opportunity has manifest recently.
For further details, PM me.

Training China's youth in:
*independent thinking
*critical thinking
*creativity
*intuition
*imagination
*whole-brained foreign language learning

Such is essential/invaluable for future leaders in various fields.
It's definitely a Value-Added approach, in which FTs share in the fruits
of the money/culture trees...