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shenyanggerry
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 619
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: JD03 |
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I just tried to reply to a post from JD03. The response I got was 'moderators only'. Now it's gone. It was started by a supposedly Canadian. The grammar used suggested a high level Chinese English speaker, definitely not a L1 English user. It quoted what looked like an advertisement on Dave's. The only reply stated that this was a problem school and that they were not a good employer - in spades.
PM me if you want the school name and location.
Moderators, I'm saving this in word to PM to Dave if you delete it. It was an inexcusable censorship! |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| the school was Joy English - I too would like hear more about problems with this company and why they have to resort to puting feeble adverts up in the forum - how stupid do they think we are????? |
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shenyanggerry
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 619
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree Vikuk, it was the one in Jilin. I was afraid that if I identified it in my initial post, it would be deleted. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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looked like a case of desperation out there - which is a real warning sighn  |
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JD03
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm the one who posted the job advertisement for Joy School in Jilin City. I've been a teacher here for 8 months, and the school asked me if I could help them find a new foreign teacher. I thought I could make a post about it in this forum. I didn't know that doing that was against the rules. Sorry.
How should I go about looking for a foreign teacher on this site? Does the school have to pay to place an ad?
Also, I didn't see the reply to my original post that got deleted. What was said about Joy School? It's a "problem school"? That's news to me. They've treated me fine so far. They've given me eveything that was promised to me in my contract.
Oh well...sorry for causing such a comotion. I didn't mean to make it look like a "case of desperation". I just thought this would be an easy way to help my school find another foreign teacher. |
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Scouse
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 14
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: JD3/Jilin |
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You might like to check out what was said about Joy School in Jilin in January 2007 on <eslteachersboard.com>.
It doesn't sound too joyful. |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes you have to pay to advertise jobs on Daves... |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I think if you were just talking about your positive experiences of your school and finished off your comments by somethng like . . . "anyone looking for a good teaching experience, PM me and we'll talk about it". But to blatantly post an advertisement and contact info and so on, well that is what other people pay Dave's to do. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: |
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In the real world a teacher promoting a school could write about the educational aspects of their job - how they were able to put their training to good use - the level of profession job satisfaction - the team spirit - the pleasures of bringing students to new levels of achievement etc etc -
Here we have -
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| They've treated me fine so far. They've given me eveything that was promised to me in my contract. |
With such glowing recommendations, it's as if this Joy teacher is waiting, fully expecting to be cheated by this school - and who's only expectation is to hope that when the contract ends, that it has been honored (a fine example of the - "they pay me on time mindset"). Sounds like Joy is another chain for the monkeys!!!!! |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
| In the real world a teacher promoting a school could write about the educational aspects of their job - how they were able to put their training to good use - the level of profession job satisfaction - the team spirit - the pleasures of bringing students to new levels of achievement etc etc |
But isn't this true of any teaching job, anywhere? Sure, different jobs/schools give it to different degrees, but in all the countries I've been in & schools I've seen, there hasn't been a single one where a dedicated teacher wouldn't find an environment to apply their training/experience and feel some professional satisfaction.
| Quote: |
| With such glowing recommendations, it's as if this Joy teacher is waiting, fully expecting to be cheated by this school - and who's only expectation is to hope that when the contract ends, that it has been honored (a fine example of the - "they pay me on time mindset"). Sounds like Joy is another chain for the monkeys!!!!! |
I do agree partly with your ideals, posted here & on other threads, that we EFL teachers should, in a better world, be able to expect every school to always keep their promises to teachers & fulfil the contract, and that we'd be able to recommend schools for all of the extra chances/facilities they provide.
Sadly, EFL being EFL, this isn't the case. Teachers get screwed over; here, in Korea, in Japan, in Europe... everywhere that EFL is taught, you hear horror stories of teachers not being paid in full, of visa problems, of working hours/conditions which don't meet those specified in the contract.
And that's not fun. The vast majority of us need our salaries to live; it's a very real, serious problem to not be paid in full, on time. If you started a poll asking "Has your current school always paid you in full, on time?", then I'm sure that you'd get far fewer than 90% of people answering "yes". And that's screwed up. Hence, I don't think there's anything wrong with recommending schools which people have found to have treated them fairly, without changing their specified working conditions, and remunerating them in full. At least in such schools we have a less stressful, more secure environment in which we can put our training and experience to use, and give our students the best we can. It's much harder to do so if you haven't been paid for a month, don't have a legal visa & never know if you'll be called at 8a.m. on your day off to be asked to cover a class. I've been there, and too many other people I've met have been.
So maybe if we give positive publicity & spread the word about schools which treat teachers as they've promised to, then more of us will end up being in such a position? Just an idea...
(And to get back on-topic, kev7161 has already hit the nail on the head) |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| but in all the countries I've been in & schools I've seen, there hasn't been a single one where a dedicated teacher wouldn't find an environment to apply their training/experience and feel some professional satisfaction. |
Sonnet - the guy who wrote this works for another chain called EF. So lets kill 2 birds with one stone � EF is a prime example of another chain mill for the monkeys. After all look at his post - the years of work at EF have turned this guy into thinking the good China job is typified by being paid on time!!!
Joy, EF sad places - that lead to sad expectations!!!!
By the way is you don't want to enter this game for the professional satisfaction - then dont choose these mills for economic gain - since they only pay peanuts!!!! |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Y'know, for some deluded reason, I actually thought we might've been able to have a discussion about the standard of treatment EFL teachers get, the effects this can have on their state of mind, the effects this can have on their ability to teach, maybe even the basic "rights" which all teachers should look for in contracts & expect to see honoured...
... but it's just easier to resort to name-calling & chucking around exclamation marks, isn't it? |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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One only has to read the forum to gain an idea about how being a China FT affects a person�s state of mind. After all we read so much about indignities suffered and low expectations - that one could assume that it's only natural that this job produces a whiner or two.
With this in mind - one can read Sonnets first post as a recipe to combat these indignities - the acceptance of realising that the employer respects you more as a tool for making money than through any professional notion of honoring the full professional scope of your teacher status - you as an FT making do with best of the worst.
Therefore it�s so important to realise where Sonnets argument comes from, his personal recipe used survive the indignity of being an FT - his FT niche of management level (DOS) in a large chain company. Revealing this is hardly name calling - but the truth - and very relevant when talking about the plight of Joe ordinary FT - because our end of the game is not about management, but all about those at the bottom of the pile who are being exploited by companies like EF and Joy. Telling them even the best of the worst - can be a trying experience out here - and that Joy seem to be typical mill - which many of us believe may belong to the worst of the worst!!!!! |
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JD03
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Anyone looking for a good teaching experiece， PM me and we�ll talk about it。  |
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Sonnet
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 235
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
| With this in mind - one can read Sonnets first post as a recipe to combat these indignities - the acceptance of realising that the employer respects you more as a tool for making money than through any professional notion of honoring the full professional scope of your teacher status |
Could you please show me where I said this? I believe you'll find you're trying to put words in my mouth.
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| Therefore it�s so important to realise where Sonnets argument comes from, his personal recipe used survive the indignity of being an FT - his FT niche of management level (DOS) in a large chain company. |
I don't believe that being an EFL teacher is any kind of indignity, and I certainly didn't take a DoS position to "survive" any "indignity".
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| Revealing this is hardly name calling - but the truth - and very relevant when talking about the plight of Joe ordinary FT - because our end of the game is not about management, but all about those at the bottom of the pile |
Fair point; we all have our own backgrounds & experiences which affect our view of EFL, and being open about these may well be helpful. By the way, vikuk, what's your job?
But, for the record, "revealing" that I'm a DoS isn't name-calling. But saying
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| EF is a prime example of another chain mill for the monkeys |
certainly is name-calling.
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| those at the bottom of the pile who are being exploited by companies like EF and Joy |
Exploited? Look, there are, sadly, plenty of schools/universities/training centres around the world who might screw over or mistreat their teachers.
But schools who enter into a contract with a teacher and then honour that contract certainly aren't exploiting that teacher. Maybe there are EF/Joy/other chain/private schools/state schools who exploit their teachers; I guess the only way to find out is to look at the feedback and experiences of people who've worked there.
It certainly sounds like JD03's school isn't exploiting him/her, so why not let it rest & save your venom for schools which teachers are actually sharing valid complaints about? |
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