Job Discussion Forums

[oreads]

About ten years ago or so, in my early years of studying English, I had one British teacher. He used to tell us about his trips almost everywhere around the world and he made money while doing so by teaching English. The idea of travelling and getting paid from teaching English was so inspiring that I said to myself that I would want to be like him. Now, here I am, an ESL/EFL teacher having taught for nearly 8 years. I've got my TESOL as well as other skills and experience of course. Recently I have had the urge of materialising my dream: to travel and get paid by teaching English. I thought this couldn't be impossible. Difficult yes but impossible no. So,having ignored the fact that most of schools require native speakers, I applied to lots and lots of schools in Japan and Korea anyway. And as a result, only few replied saying that they reject my application (though I must thank them for having shown decency of politely rejecting me). I often wonder, how come native speakers can get a job more easily even without experience whatsoever? The non-native speakers have to work really hard to be recognised. English is an international language nowadays, and doesn't belong to several nations only, I believe. Should we have achieved equality by now?

[denise]

Your English is better than that of many native speakers! Yes, there are opportunities for you. This topic has come up several times, and there are a few people (don't remember who, but maybe they'll chime in) who typically respond by saying that schools who automatically reject non-native speakers aren't worth working for anyway. I agree. (I'm a native speaker but cringe at the thought that I can get jobs only by having been born in the right place or having the right skin/hair/eye color.) Native speakers get the jobs often because schools are run by people who are concerned primarily, or solely, with money and wouldn't recognize a good teacher if he/she fell out of the sky and hit him on the head. The thinking goes something like this: "You're blond? You have a passport from (insert native-speaking country)? Oooh, you can teach!" Good directors know that that's not always true.

You say you've been teaching for eight years. Where? With what qualifications other than the TESOL certificate (??) that you mentioned?

d

[zorro (3)]

Where are you from oreads? Not that it really matters, but just out of interest. Which kind of companies were you applying to? Some companies want a NS as part of their marketing strategy unfortunately so this could have been a reason for your rejection. In all honesty, these places probably aren't even worth working for anyway from your perspective.

Have you thought about doing a Masters? This may open a few doors for you.

[naturegirl321]

Simply because they think that because native speakers speak English, they can teach it.

[Glenski]

[ls650]

I think non-native speakers can do a great job of teaching English - up to the intermediate level. At about this level, even an excellent non-native teacher struggles with teaching concepts such as phrasal verbs, idiomas and expressions, natural-sounding pronunciation, etc. For example, a while back, two NNS who speak at a near-native level asked me what the difference is between saying "I saw Jane at the beach" versus "I saw Jane on the beach". For a native speaker, the difference is clear.

At one school where I worked, the teaching load was split evenly between a native speaker and an NNS at beginner, pre-intermediate, and intermediate levels. At higher levels the classes were taught exclusively by native speakers. That sounds like a good balance to me.

[Stephen Jones]

The answer is simple.

EFL, like second hand cars, is an imperfect market. The customer does not know whether the teacher he has paid for is a lemon or not, which in the matter that concerns us here, is that he doesn't know if the teacher speaks English really well or not. If the teacher is obviously a native speaker, which translates in practice to being white, then the customer has a guarantee.

[oreads]

To answer your questions, denise. I am Indonesian. Other than TESOL I hold bachelor in French. I love languages so I am learning Japanese as well now.

[Glenski]

[oreads]

Indonesia is a non-English speaking country in itself just like Japan and Korea. One might wonder if it is possible at all to find someone with excellent native like English in this country. Yes it is. We see American and British movies, we imitate the accent and idiomatic expressions. The language school I am working for now hires both native and non-native and many of my Indonesian colleagues speak like native using idioms and such as well as the accent nearly, if not as authentic as native speakers. Some of them even have CELTA. But they dare not think of working overseas to teach English because they know that they aren't native.

I don't have objections to native speakers' teaching at higher levels because these where the use of language has gone beyond just grammatical structure. Idioms, colloquial speech, slangs, proverbs, phrasal verbs as such are more dominant here. Something that NNS might have difficulties since we don't live in the culture. However, I think NNS have contributed a lot in laying the necessary foundation within the students. This will facilitate the English teaching done by NS at higher levels. Surely NS can see clearly the difference between "I saw Jane at the beach" and "I saw Jane on the beach". They have lived in the culture all their lives. But can they explain it to the students if the students barely know what "saw" and "beach" mean? Beginner or intermediate levels are just as important as advanced levels. Couldn't NNS be appreciated equally for having done so?


In "Effective Class Management" Mary Underwood says, I quote, "Obviously, being a fluent, accurate English speaker is a great help, but this alone does not make you into a successful teacher. Indeed, many really good teachers of English are people whose own command of the language is quite limited. This is because they frequently understand their students' difficulties better than native speakers of the language do. I am an Indonesian native speaker but I'd rather not teach Indonesia.

[oreads]

[quote="Stephen Jones"]The answer is simple.

EFL, like second hand cars, is an imperfect market. The customer does not know whether the teacher he has paid for is a lemon or not, which in the matter that concerns us here, is that he doesn't know if the teacher speaks English really well or not. If the teacher is obviously a native speaker, which translates in practice to being white, then the customer has a guarantee.[/quote]

I was once sent an email with a job offer teaching in China. I was nearly shocked at how they categorised the salary.
1. For native speakers up to around RMB8000
2. For European up to around RMB7000
3. For Asian up to around RMB4000
It is indisputable that race is still dominating the ESL market.

[Aussie Chick]

[ls650]

[Justin Trullinger]

A lot depends on how you present yourself. I have worked with both native and non-native teachers of English, and the best, in both categories, have been those who know the advantages, and dis-advantages, of both cases. (For example, as a non-native, you have aquired the grammar in the same way your students will. Big advantage. On the other hand, as a native, I have that "perfect ear" for grammar errors that non-natives rarely aquire.)

If you can present your non-native status as an advantage, some employers will be savvy enough to see the truth in this. (Not all, but some.) Even though you can also be honest that there are some disadvantages to it, too.

On the other hand, as an employer, it gets on my nerves when high level non-native speakers tell me that they can teach English because their English is "perfect." It invariably isn't. And I can tell. The fact that their English has some flaws doesn't disqualify them from teaching English, you understand. But the fact that they are unaware of these flaws, or unwilling to recognise them, in my opinion, does.

I could certainly teach Spanish for many levels. My Spanish is extremely good. But it's not a native language, and I'm aware that there are some things that a native has that I don't. (I have a English influenced accent in SPanish; not a strong one, but definitely noticeable. And, especially when tired, I make some errors that a native never would. It doesn't mean I couldn't teach, but it may limit the situations in which I could do it well.)

A funny story (this really happened):

[denise]

Justin--

Between your Polish/English teacher story and your comments about kids biting, kicking, sticking things up their noses, etc., in the toddler thread, I've nearly fallen out of my chair laughing!

oreads--Sorry to go off topic!

d