Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

There's a bit of an argument on another thread on this forum regarding how common it is for North Americans to be legally hired in the new EU member countries, including Poland, Czech Rep, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, etc.

What do you think about the availability of jobs for non-EU teachers these days?

The poster on the other thread states that it's very difficult to be hired legally in the new EU states, and that it takes 30 interviews to get a job. He/she goes on to say that pay for North Americans is (*&^, implying that they are paid less than Brits.

I've taken issue with this post, because I'm entirely sure it's not the case, but, hey, update me. Have things taken a sudden dive for the worse for non-EU citizens?

[naturegirl321]

AS my husband and I are looking to emigrate to a Central / Eastern European country, I would also be interested in hearing from non-EU people working there.

[CaPow]

I teach in Budapest, Hungary and it was extremely easy for me to find a job and work legally. I was hired by the first language school I interviewed at, the school got me a work permit, and when I went home over Christmas I applied for a work visa which took about a month. Most American ESL teachers I have met here don't work legally unless they came on a program. (The only non EU teachers I've met here are American, so I can't comment on other nationalities.) So I wouldn't say it's common for Americans to work legally, but it is possible. However, many language schools probably won't help teachers work legally, because it seems to be so easy to work illegally.

[stillnosheep]

[spiral78]

I'm trying to make the point that North Americans, can get legal working permits for the new EU member states, and are, therefore, not paid less than EU teachers.

[stillnosheep]

Yes, it is sometimes possible for a US citizen to find a school in a new EU state that can get obtain a work permit for them.

But...

i) most US national English language teachers that obtain work in the new EU states do so illegally;

and

ii) many of those few schools who are prepared to attempt to obtain a legal work visa for US nationals are prepared to do so because they have trouble recruiting EU citizens to teach English for the (low) wages they offer.

I am not not, of course, refering to those highly qualified and experienced US teachers who obtain jobs because they are better qualified than local (EU) citizens.

[TwinCentre]

On the previous thread, I stated Non-EU folk would earn less because the jobs available to them would be the lower paying ones, with the smaller or least credible schools.

I can hand on heart, after years experiencing recruitment first or secondhand, say I believe that to be fact. With exceptions of course, but few of them.

BTW, Spiral, I am posting from Poland. 'Oh' for location was to mean literally 'oh....can't be bothered to say'.

[spiral78]

So, I'm going to say that it ultimately depends on the location, its desirability, and what the labor market's like there. In Prague, non-EU citizens can get papers, but it's a hassle, and those who are planning to stay just one year probably mostly don't bother. So, they are working illegally - but I still don't think (check the posts on the Czech forum for corroboration) they are paid less.

Wherever you are in Poland may be a different story. Slovenia and Hungary, which were the locations that sparked TwinCentres to say it's rare for Americans to be hired and that they will be poorly paid if they are, will be still different, in terms of job availability, paperwork details, and pay.

I still take exception to blanket statements, which may be true in your location and personal experience, but isn't the case everywhere or for most teachers.

The fact is that Non-EU teachers can work legally, are not necessarily competing with 'hordes' of Brits in most locations, and pay should not (and I'm pretty sure is not) be lower for them in any decent school.

[naturegirl321]

I think that commitment has something to do with it. I for one, plan on emigrating to Central Europe, so hope thta my employer will go through the paperwork.

[spiral78]

Commitment's a good point. I think most of the non-EU teachers working illegally just didn't want to deal with the hassle. Remember, employers can get the ball rolling, but it'll likely be YOU who has to stand in endless lines to get the expensive stamp collection to make yourself legal.

[grahamb]

Look at it from the employers' point of view: It's a damn sight easier for them to recruit people who don't need a work permit/visa, so logically they're going to recruit native speakers from the UK or Ireland (or suitably qualified non-native speakers from other EU countries). Altruism doesn't come into the equation.

[spiral78]

That's certainly true, but the general point is that there are NOT enough EU-citizen newbie teachers to fill the positions available in most locations in Central Europe. It is not difficult to find jobs, with a U.S. or Canadian passport, and most employers will at least take the time to get the ball rolling to get you legal papers. It's up to the teacher (in most cases) to follow through. Some do, some don't.

[Mike_2007]

Another factor to your equation could be the perception that one type of English (British/American) is 'better to learn' than the other.

I have had a few students who claim to understand American English very well (from exposure to films I expect) but who want to learn 'real' English, which they perceive as being harder. This is generally because they have been to London on business or for pleasure and not understood much.

I get the feeling that here in Romania the people consider British English to be the one to learn. I'm sure in other countries they consider American English the more superior. Could this also factor into things when it comes to getting hired?

[spiral78]

Absolutely. But there is some 'happy medium,' too, I think. I am lucky enough to have a very neutral accent and a respect for British English. I think those of us who can legitimately teach "international English" have the best possibilities.

[coffeedrinker]

I concur that it is a big hassle for North Americans to get work permits in the new EU countries I've had the experience in. There are just so many steps that need to fit together that I think the employer risks getting a teacher who doesn't get the permit on time and the school either needs to pay them off the books for several months or having to ditch a teacher it said it would employ. If a mistake gets made in one step of the paperwork, it's not just a matter of doing that again, but getting a whole chain of things done again - this is of course like bureaucracy everywhere, but in the new EU countries it is a bigger comparative disadvantage because those from the EU need no permits.

But it's possible, and it's also more likely that a school will invest the time and risk in a more experienced teacher.

As far as the pay goes, I don't think a North American will necessarily earn less, but they will just have less choice because in my experience plenty of schools just don't want to go through the paperwork and hassle, especially if their general strategy is to hire new teachers who they expect will leave after a year or two. I don't know that experience nets you that much more in Europe, at least in the context of language schools, but if this means that schools tend to hire more experienced N.Amer teachers, it could mean average wages are similar to that of others.