Job Discussion Forums

[Gosta]

Hi, I'm a newly-certified CELTA teacher looking for a job in Canada. Is it possible for people from the UK to get work over there? Do employers help with visa's? Your advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Dino

[Jetgirly]

I don't think there is even a remote possibility of you moving here permanently, but you might be eligible for a working holiday visa and you could maybe find some part-time work from there... assuming you also have a university degree. However, Canada has plenty of English-speaking, CELTA-qualified teachers to fill long-term vacancies, and employers would have no need to bother with a foreign applicant and the hassles of the visa process.

[Symphany]

Please provide more information about yourself. Are you planning to stay for the long run or just wanting to travel for a bit?

If you're going the temporary travelling route, I believe the UK has working holiday agreements with most of the commonwealth nations, including Canada. You'd have to check with the British government to find out more. I think there's an age limit too, for Canadians wanting to work in Britain, the age limit is 30 for the working holiday visa.

Are there any particular regions or cities you want to work in -- Canada is the second largest country in the world behind Russia.

The British council has a program where you can teach English, but only in Quebec where the majority is French-speaking.

http://www.britishcouncil.org/languageassistants-canada.htm

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

hmmm, that's interesting considering that they won't even consider Canadian anglophones for those kinds of jobs.

Anglophone Canadians with accents when they speak French are treated like crap in Quebec and Ottawa (so much so that my friends in Ottawa who went through the French Immersion system are afraid to speak French), but they'll hire British people with far, far below fluency (and honestly, they want people for rural Quebec, where the French is far, far, far from Parisian and the chance of an English speaker who is virtually fluent in Parisian French, like someone who majored in French as a Foreign Language, who has never set foot in Canada understanding it is tiny. In fact a relative of mine who's mother is French and grew up speaking both languages equally in the house in the UK arrived in Quebec and couldn't understand a thing they were saying. Think of Brad Pitt in Snatch and that's about what it's like). Yet another reason why CANADA RULES!!!!

[Gosta]

I was thinking of a long-term move. I'm going to come over on the working holiday visa, and was hoping that an employer would help me stay long-term. Is it really that difficult?

As for location, I have friends in Vancouver, Toronto, Edmonton, Montreal and Ottawa, so I'm pretty flexible as to where I'd go, particularly if it meant I could get a visa. Is my situation really so hopeless?

[spiral78]

There's just not enough demand for English teachers for that to get you a long-term visa. Speaking from personal experience (I've been teaching EFL/ESL for ten years and have an MA in the field): it wouldn't work for me.

[Symphany]

Gambate...I hear what you're saying about anglophone treatment in French Canada...on the upside Quebec seems to love foreigners like the British and the American, its only the familiar who receive the contempt.....

there is actually a similar program run by the Canadian government for anglophones but the pay is pretty low, its similar to the British council scheme except its domestically-run. The Website is

http://www.myodyssey.ca/english/program.html

Gosta if you're thinking of coming over long term you really should have a look at the Canadian government's website and the different requirements for coming over.

www.canadainternational.gc.ca

[Vanica]

[spiral78]

There was some research into Canadian immersion programs some years back focusing on whether comprehensible input (which was provided) was sufficient for language learning to occur, without any focus on learning about the language, in terms of structure, patterns, and lexis (which was not provided).

I believe that the research strongly indicated that simple immersion isn't enough, without some component of overt learning about the language. But I'd be surprised if changes weren't made - this is research that's quoted throughout SLA literature.

Does anyone know the approach/method taken in the immersion schools? I suppose it's not really particularly useful to ask, but I'm curious in any case.

[denise]

[spiral78]

You're right - I just didn't want to put the exact reference in my post (am over-sensitive to such issues as naming names). I've got tons of SLA lit at my fingertips as I'm currently working on curriculum projects, and Swain's cited in most curriculum/methodology works.

But this was back in the mid-late '80s and my curiosity is about whether Swain's research didn't inspire a change in methodology in the Canadian immersion approach.

If not, that might explain why the native English speakers in the French immersion schools can't speak French.

Any Canadians who experienced immersion programs in the '90s or beyond out there?

[spiral78]

Actually, just to clarify, Swain didn't refute the need for comprehensible input (Krashen's input hypothesis), just argued that it wasn't sufficient. Long also supports this idea.

[denise]

[Vanica]

Please note that in Montreal, there are two schools boards, one francophone and one anglophone. The anglophone school board also runs French immersion schools, and the English school board is only open to English-identified, Canadian parents; in other words, children of immigrants are blocked from attending. (There are lawsuits pending.)

That being said, the French immersion schools, as opposed to the French language schools, in Quebec, are limited to children of at least one Canadian-anglophone parent. The high school students I have met out of that programme speak English at home, speak English with their friends and classmates, and presumably watch English-language TV, and live in English enclaves. They speak to us in French that is translated word-for-word from English, and constantly drop in English phrases.

I think the failure of the English school board to teach French speaks of the cultural bias against French in the English community. Otherwise, why wouldn't these children attend the French school system if their parents wanted them to learn French?

The French immersion programme is very strange here in Montreal because it is limited and segregated to a purely English-speaking, anglo community, with the exception of mixed marriages. So it is by nature a contradiction in terms; even though it exists in a francophone community, it avoids and rejects actual immersion in it.

As for the rest of Canada, suffice it to say that my ex warned me on my visit to Calgary not to tell anyone I lived in Montreal, "They hate the Quebecois here," he said. I don't know if a change in methodology in the classroom can combat such enmity.

Someone we know in Westmount who is originally from Ontario and is contantly going off about the Quebecois, wants his children enrolled in the French immersion school. Why? I told him that I noticed the kids there speak French very badly, and that seemed to make him happy(?)

As someone who interprets both languages and other ones, I find the whole fear of losing one's self if one learns another language absurd. But then again, maybe my work depends on that fear and inability. But I think my former country, which no longer exists, may hold the secret to language instruction. Even the head of the big French school of interpretation is from there. (By the way, no native speaker English teachers, ever.)

[spiral78]

Thanks, Vanica - you've widened the discussion considerably, but I'm still curious about the classroom teaching methodology used in the French immersion programs.

Maybe others will enjoy discussing the politics of language, which seems to be where you're going with this. I can't speak to that issue myself.

Anybody know anything about current approaches in the Canadian immersion programs?