Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

Dear scot47,
Actually, in my 19 years there, I got to meet three - unveiled yet. I tutored them (and I was even left alone in a room with them - Yikes.) But they were from very "upper-class, Westernized" families. Others I tutored (believe it or not) on the computer. I never got to see them.
Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

err... John... was this supposed to be a new thread? or a PM?



VS
(or does it go on the other thread...)

[johnslat]

Dear veiledsentiments,
Whoops, guess I hit the wrong button. This should have gone in the

"How difficult is it to find work . . ." thread.

Sorry,
John

[scot47]

Let's start another thread "Difficulties old geezers have in hitting the right buttons" !

[Saudi4Ever]

deleted by moi

[johnslat]

Dear scot47,
Yup, you got me. But isn't "old geezer" redundant? I mean, can there be such a person as a "young geezer?"
Dear Saudi4Ever,
I suppose my "mature years" might have had something to do with it. But I haven't always been a geezer, you know. This was back in the early to mid '90s when I was a mere stripling of about 50 (or so).
Does being 50 qualify one for geezerhood? I'm not quite sure when that exalted state is attained.
So, of course I did some research:

"In the United States and Canada, geezer generally refers to an old man, or more liberally, any old person, usually eccentric. This may derive from redundant use of the word old in English as in: who's that old geezer? where the subject is not necessarily an elderly person. [3]. This is an example of etymological contamination.
Because the population is aging in America, the term is slowly being broadened to include older women as well and imply a kind of colorful eccentricity, as well. For example, The Geezer Brigade, an online humor organization for "clever old people", is split between men and women
whose average age is 70."

To sum up: I may be a geezer, but as I tell my wife:

I have the body of a 20 year old, the mind of a 12 year old, and the heart of a young boy (I keep that last one in the freezer; man, that kid could run.)
Regards,
John

[EFLUndercover]

First, I preface what I am about to say, by saying that it is only a correction to the previous poster and should not be used as a catalyst to continue the conversation. I will not participate. But for the sake of clarification I can be PMed. My intention is to educate and not debate.

A muslim woman cannot uncover herself in the presence of a non-mahram male - meaning, in the Arabic language, a non-relative. Even there are restrictions as to members of her extended family that she can not uncover in front of. This is a summary explanation.

If the tutor was a non-Muslim, though an older gentleman, then it is/was not permissible to uncover in front of him. Whatever behaviour the students or the family chose to display in this regard, unfortunately, was not correct.

This behaviour may have been due to lack of Islamic knowledge or carelessness. In some cases, some may be shy to explain the tenets of their religion or are non-confrontational to Westerners.

I am sure there are posters that will chime in with their comments on the actions of their Muslims friends that practice variations on what they consider to be Islaam. However, there is a 'right' and a 'wrong' way that is not left up to individual interpretation. But, as I stated, I will not debate the issue.

My comments are given as a Muslim, a woman, fluent in Arabic and very well-educated in religious and secular studies. And I might add, a Westerner.

[007]

[johnslat]

Dear 007,
I have PMed ELFUndercover regarding this issue. I did some on-line research, and there do seem to be two "schools of thought" in Islam as to whether the hijab (including the veil) is mandatory.
This would seem to be confirmed by "the facts on the ground", since I have been to some Islamic countries where the "tradition/requirement" (depending on which school of thought you favor) is seldom practiced.
Regards,
John

[umzakaria]

the point is that a muslim woman should not be left alone with a male non-mahram,of course she must be covered (and the hijab is wajib or obligatory as stated in the quran),there is difference of opinion regarding covering her hands and face,some scholars say it is wajib (obligatory) and others that it is reccomended (mustahab) which is why there is an element of choice depending on which scholars you are following.It is abundantly clear that there are muslims all over the world who pick and choose how closely they follow their religion.When my English,non muslim sister(as in sibling) was doing some research on the Hawsa tribe of Nigeria she was invited into the inner sanctum of the emir's wives and family and equally accepted by the men,who she was allowed to sit with and talk to.She said that because she was a white,western,non-muslim woman she was treated as if she was an 'honorary'man (and I use that phrase in the context it is set in!)
just my two pence worth!

[Bebsi]

Yes, Umzakaria, and let's not forget Gertrude Bell the explorer, who was similarly treated by the Bedu of the Nafud and the Hijjaz as an "honorary man" almost 100 years ago.

Doctrinaire religious tenets seem to be, in reality, strictly adhered to by only a minority in most of not all religions.

And as has been raised by a number of posters, what exactly IS he doctrinaire teaching in this case? Bear in mind that THREE different issues have been raised:

1. Muslims mixing with the opposite sex;

2. Muslims mixing with non-muslims of the opposite sex;

3. What Muslim women must or should wear in public, i.e. when in a place where there are also "strangers" of the opposite sex.

[Mark100]

[EFLUndercover]

In response to present and future posters, as far as my own comments are concerned, I will only respond by PM to anyone who would like to know why I wrote that particular information in my post.

I have already sent PMs to johnslat, mark100, and Bebsi.

To the moderators: my apologies, as I know continuation of this thread is not job-related and may be under threat of getting locked.

[veiledsentiments]

As long as everything remains civil, I shouldn't think the MODs will step in. It may not be directly related to teaching, but it is a cultural difference that new teachers in the Gulf area should be aware of.

Anyone who has lived or traveled all around the Muslim world is aware that there are various interpretations of the Quran and Sunna in different cultures as to the allowed activities and dress code for women. For a non-Muslim temporary resident, it is important to be aware and non-judgmental - which can sometimes be difficult when we get judged for the supposed transgressions of our own cultures.

VS