Job Discussion Forums

[Dan Eric]

I guess everyone knows that foreign teachers in China are not allowed to do work on side, e.g. picking up a few extra hours per week at another school or company. But I know many FT's do so anyway.

My question is, how much trouble could you be in if the local authorities (PSB) find out that you're working on the side?

On the one hand, it could be a case of "they don't really care, as long as you keep it quiet and stay out of trouble". And someone I know who has some experience working with the PSB once told me that as long as the your school gives you permission, it's ok.

But on the other hand, I've had several experiences of the authorities specifically and emphatically warning us not to work outside of our school. Their tone seemed to suggest that breaking the rule was serious enough to affect visas/permits.

[james s]

Why... Everyone in China follows the law to a 'T'.

China responds to petty crime in relatively the same manner as other countries do.

[cj750s]

[HunanForeignGuy]

Dear OP,

I write what I write very, very politely. Your question is probably one of the ten-most discussed items on this Board. The threads on this subject are endless -- truly endless. I can only wonder whether or not you did a search on this subject before you posted. It has truly been discusssed ad inifinitum and not much has changed since the last discussion.

All the best,

HFG

[Dan Eric]

Hunanforeignguy,

I spent about 15 minutes trying to perform a search, but for some reason the search function was not working, although it has worked fine for me in the past. No matter what I tried to search, it came up emtpy (e.g. "extra work", searched in the "China Job-related forum".) Also, I spent another 15 minutes or so trying to search page by page, but the internet connection was hopelessly slow (I even had three windows working at the same time). So I decided to post a new topic.

Perhaps I should have mentioned all that? But the thing is, I didn't know that this topic has been discussed so much already, so I didn't realize that some people might be annoyed by my asking.

Dan

[HunanForeignGuy]

Dear Kind Dan,

Not annoyed at all -- just kindly letting you know that this is one subject that has been almost scientifically covered on this board and that there is a wealth of information on it available here by means of the search function.

All the best,


HFG

[Dan Eric]

Hunanforeignguy,

OK thanks.

[Teatime of Soul]

Dan,

The answer, and I write this without tying to be funny, is "it depends."

It depends on...

a. Your contract
b. Your employer
c. Your PSB

Some employers may not care much, some may care a lot.

Our FAO was recently warned (by the local PSB) that if a school's teachers were caught teaching at another school without "PSB authorization" the school could anticipate fines in the 20,000 to 40,000 range and would be required to pay for the immediate deportation of the FT.

Other PSBs may have a more lenient policy, or not even care.

A key thing to remember is that if you are caught teaching at another school, the PSB may well presume you were sent by your school and your school is profiting from your labors. Therefore, the PSB may fine your school for YOUR infraction. That probably will not sit well with your employer.

But, if tradition holds, for every cautionary tale, there will be five posters here who will testify the rules can be flouted with impunity; so you have to make your own decision in the end.

Best of luck.

[Dan Eric]

Thanks for that information Teatime.

[diana83709]

Dan,

Teatime has some really good advice...... "it depends...." We were fortunate enough to do teaching on the side as long as it did not interfere with our jobs. We had to clear everything through our employer and the FAO took care of the rest. Granted, we did a lot of "pro bono" teaching, but was worth our time. Just make sure you CYA!

Best of luck! Diana

[HunanForeignGuy]

The bottom line is .. read your own contract of employment very, very carefully.

If you are allowed to work somewhere with the consent of your employment, then try to obtain the consent of your employer in writing. That is standard practice and not as hard as it would appear.

Pro bono teaching is not remunerated teaching and thus exempt from contractual obligations. If you are paid in cash, say, in private, then generally speaking, that is your own business, but if you work for another school, well, things could otherwise get dicey, so to speak.

[diana83709]

HFG, I understand what you are saying. The students we had taught wanted to pay, but they had already been really kind to us. One student's parents own a fruit/flower shop and have always given us free fruit and flowers since we had arrived. The others were so amazing at their eagerness to learn (2 years private) that it gave us equal joy to teach for free.
We did other things like lecture w/q & a at local universities and summer English camps for money and gifts, but it had been prearranged thru our school and the FAO approached us about doing it before hand.
You are quite correct about reviewing your contract - very carefully.

[jeffinflorida]

Op your question should be answered once you arrive in china.

Depending where you live you will see the levels of lawlessness that are in fact in place and you will decide your place in this.

With that said, you should seek out side work and do it if that is your preference. Tutoring done in private = little risk. Side work in an English mill might bring you unwanted attention.

The size and scope of your city also may play a part. Your attitude and dress style may also call attention to your presence.

the bottom line, china is a good place to make extra cash usually paid on the spot.

[clark.w.griswald]

Working outside of your main employer is illegal and in almost all cases would breach your employment contract with your main employer. So the potential for problems resulting from your outside will always be there.

That said the chances of being unlucky enough to get caught, or even unluckier to be punished for being caught are very slim.

I think that Jeff's advice is good. If you are going to take on some outside work then maybe concentrate on private students as it will be easier to stay under the radar of both your employer and the PSB.

Just don't pinch students from your own employer or else you are leaving the door open to them to take offence and perhaps take action against you.

It is pretty safe to say that most foreign teachers probably do some outside work at some time or another for extra cash or to fill in time.

[arioch36]

By Chinese standards, you should not ask your school if it is okay. You do it. That way they don't need to know. Only ask them if you want them to find you the extra work, or if the extra teaching might be highly public, taking a lot of time, or competing with the school.


Any legal contract must have the clause Party B may not accept employment or hold any post outside the school unrelated to the work agreed to in the contract. Or something to that effect. This comes not from your school, but from Beijing. So technically, by law, it does not need to be a paid post. If one could mention the law and China in the same breath with a straight face.
I believe the law is actually the same for the Chinese teachers.

Your low level school waishiban low level office worker that you deal with could give you consent. it would not help you in the least, as a higher level school employee could always deny it as being legitimate. I do not believe any school employee would be foolish enough to give you written permission, though if they did, this would not give you protection (see above)

Thus the law

The reality. Working outside jobs is part of the culture. Most laowai have had their waishiban ask them to take on extra work outside the school. Most schools hire teachers from outside their schools. And a school would never take a laowai to court over this (The reality of losing face in China) all schools ALL SCHOOLS know this is going on, and the rare school that cares will make every effort to warn you not to do it.

Really, you just don't mention it to them (and thus put them in the difficult situation.)

In six years in China I do not know of a single laowai who had problems because of outside teaching. I know ONE school that made it clear this was unnaceptable. When a foreigner did anyways, they complained to the foreigner, and informed he would not be rehired.