Job Discussion Forums

[Yawarakaijin]

I had a really interesting class today that got me to thinking about a couple things.

It's often said..

Don't talk about the war in general with your students
Never talk about Hiroshima, Nagasaki
Never use sarcasm with Japanese, they just dont get it.
Japanese don't like debating, don't try it in class.
etc.

How do you react when you hear these little gems from friends or co-workers? Do you take it as sound advice or do you get the impression that it's a little condescending?

I had a student today who was a very pleasant surprise. He has always been a little shy and reserved, and certainly never interested in any kind of grammar study. (even though he certainly needs it )

Last week, as we were ending the class, it came out that he is quite interested in History so today I tried something a little sneaky. I thought we would talk about interesting historical events using the 3rd conditional.

First came the obligatory eye rolls when I told him that we needed to work on a grammar point and then the epiphany......Hey! I can use this to talk about history. For an hour and a half we had a wonderful discussion on the if's and if nots of world war 2, Japanese history in general and other pivitol moments in history.

So, my questions to you are..

1.) Are these generally sound pieces of advice or simply speculation and generalization?

2.) Are we missing chances to really get to know our students and short changing them intellectually when it comes to conversation and classroom topics?

3.) Is it worth possibly offending a few people in order to make a real connection and have more stimulating conversations than how our weekends went?

note: in no way this meant to be any kind of attack on anyone who may have posted thesee pieces of advice in the past.

[Glenski]

Be very careful about trying to sneak history into your English lessons. You may find Chinese or Korean students in your midst, and if the Japanese students are aware of certain aspects of their own history, you might have some bruised egos or mental anguish on your hands. Be kind to everyone.

Japanese don't "not like debating". They do it differently than westerners.

Japanese get sarcasm. Haven't you seen stand-up comedians? Of course, they are being sarcastic in L1 and know how to do it.

Why on earth would you want to talk about the war, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki when there are plenty more topics conducive to practicing English? Please. Give me a good reason that justifies this.

Perhaps we are shortchanging some of the more fluent students, or the ones willing to challenge themselves. But that amounts to about ten percent, in my estimation, based on teaching in university and private high school. The secondary ed kids certainly need as much OC practice as they can get, but the stage that they are in just doesn't usually permit such fluent conversations to develop well. Not with the other stuff they face in their lives (club activities, juku, lack of home life, etc.), and certainly with with the pitiful English skills they are based on from their JTEs.

Go ahead and stimulate and motivate who you can. Most won't appreciate it, so focus on the few who will, but in the end, you still have to teach to the middle of the bell curve, IMO.

[furiousmilksheikali]

"Are the Japanese so different?" is a can-of-worms question and loaded with suppressed premises. Different from whom?

There are many people who believe that the Japanese are unique in the world; there is a field of study known as nihonjinron devoted to it. There are foreigners such as the Japanologist Edward Seidensticker who also consider the Japanese to be different from all other people in the world and somewhat hyperbolically sums up his feelings here:

[Yawarakaijin]

Interesing points guys. Just to be clear on a few things. It was a private class with a gentleman in his mid 30's. My only direction was let's discuss history using the 3rd conditional. Where the conversation went after that was entirely up to him. It is never something I would introduce directly as a topic to be discussed in , say, a middle school setting.

The examples listed are not specifically things I believe but things I have heard others say.

I find it interesting how many of us get offended when Japanese pull that "oh you cant understand it, you're not Japanese." yet we sit around in bars saying things like "japanese can't understand our humour" or "Japanese don't like to talk about controversial things."

[furiousmilksheikali]

[Yawarakaijin]

[Vince]

One of the greatest things about living among the Japanese is the gradual process of getting to know them. You're right that the Japanese are no less capable of sarcasm, handling a discussion of the war, and other things that too many foreigners say the Japanese can't do. Often, it's more about how each culture handles the implications of these things. The Japanese are less inclined to use sarcasm, for example, because it can be very cutting and cause someone to lose face; they aren't as thick-skinned about that kind of thing (or we're often insensitive in the Japanese context).

[markle]

[furiousmilksheikali]

[southofreality]

I've been guilty of using the classroom as my stand-up comedy proving ground, but most of the time the person who enjoyed my jokes the most was me.

In the end, if your goal is to facilitate activities where the desired English is used sucessfully by the students, keeping topics friendly is the best way to go. Sometimes you get lucky and you get students who are comfortable with somewhat controversial material or who will genuinely find your wisecracks funny. But, you've got to pick your spots carefully. If you're unsure how things'll go over in class, it's best to keep it safe.

[Glenski]

Japanese don't get our humor, or don't understand our sarcasm.

I have many American friends and co-workers who could say the same thing about my own humor and sarcasm. It's silly to say that such lack of understanding is due solely to a race or nationality. I sat around in a bar with a bunch of Brits, and we tried to exchange jokes for an hour. It became clear that our brand of humor just wasn't made for each other, and that was partly due to cultural differences, yes, but we have the same mother tongue!

No harm in bringing up things like WWII?? I had an adult eikaiwa class, where to my surprise Japanese and one Korean some over 50 years old and others in their 30s were astonished to hear one of their classmates (a sharp, friendly businessman in his late 20s early 30s) try to convince everyone that there were no WWII atrocities commited by Japan (or at least that the reports were blown out of proportion). This was a news topics class, and something had been brought to class from The Japan Times, so it was fair game. The outrage that the other students felt was reflected in a (thankfully) polite fashion, but it was obvious that they totally disagreed with the guy. Never saw him again. He quit class. Who knows how such a topic affected him?

[Vince]

[gaijinalways]

Yes, the OP's title is misleading and too general. Many countries consider themselves different, I remember just reading in a novel how some Australians still believe that in their country people are equal (or seen as having a population that doesn't have as much inequality as other countries)

[Alberta605]

[alexcase]

Some things that Japanese people do are more prevalent than in any other country. This is also true in every other country. Most of the things they do exist (with slight variations) in at least one other country. And the reasons why they do what they do are the same all over the world- kindness, boredom, needing to belong, feeling pissed off etc. etc.

As a Brit, I feel much less culture shock in Japan than in Spain.