Job Discussion Forums

[Caterinamh]

As many of you already know that this is and continues to be a hot topic here in Turkey. I have mixed feelings about it and often feel like I'm balancing on the fence. Share your views in a respectful and well worded response please in an attempt to keep it fair and respectful.



A few comments to read and respond to in order to start the thread...

"The Turkish government has still not dispelled the coercion and self-censorship that pervade academic life. Professors continue to be disciplined for challenging state practices".

Rachel Denber
Acting Executive Director
Europe and Central Asia Division

�The Turkish authorities say they want to protect women who choose not to wear the headscarf," said Denber. "But bullying women out of higher education because of the way they choose to dress is a poor way to protect women�s freedoms.�



Sep 19, 2007, 16:48 GMT


"Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Wednesday attempted to brush off a growing controversy that his party is moving to allow women to wear Islamic-style headscarves at university.

Outlining plans to introduce a new constitution that would strengthen human rights and basic freedoms, Erdogan refused to be drawn on whether the new constitution would give women the right to wear the Islamic covering at universities.

'The headscarf is not a symbol for any one party,' Erdogan said when asked about the matter"(Todays Zaman, 2007).

[justme]

I think this discussion came up a year or 2 back, maybe more, but I'm happy to repeat myself because it makes me feel erudite and I don't get a lot of that these days...

Despite my VERY mixed feelings on covering and the headscarf in general, I think this law unfairly targets women because there isn't some required Islamic dress for men that keeps them out of school or certain jobs. Some women's families keep them out of school because of the headscarf, and others choose not to go, rather than cave and wear a wig or go scarfless. But whatever the reason, the last thing this country needs is more uneducated women.

Also, the ban strikes me as symbolic-- a woman who uncovers to go to school, teach children, be a judge, or whatever else, still holds the same religious convictions whether her scarf is on or not. I mention this because the nationalist argument about the headscarf is often 'We don't want these covered women teaching our kids or making laws' or whatever, but wearing the scarf or not hardly affects how they do their jobs.

There are many problems here about academic and intellectual freedom, but these probelms have pretty much nothing to do with headscarves...

[Caterinamh]

Justme,
Thank you for such great insight and wise words. I agree with you when you state that it doesn't change the internal beliefs of the person regardless of weather she chooses to cover her head with a cloth fashioned in a way that many feel as an unacceptable symbol. I furthermore believe it again limits women from participating in university life and professional job fields which for me is just unacceptable!

I think most people believe in the theory of �live and let live� however you often have to wonder if secularism is something that we can dictate according to our western standards. This has been proposed to me several times by Turks when I stated �why not just let them practice their belief? �What does it hurt�? The answer to me is always �you can�t understand you are not Turk�. True but do I really have to be?

I also wonder however if this proposed new constitution will allow the same freedoms of people of faiths beyond that of Islam ie. Jews, Kurds, Christians etc.?

[Golightly]

The ironic thing is that the ban on headscarves has politicised them as a symbol, and the way it is worn is often indicative of a particular social stance, or so it would appear. The more 'village' style, where it is more of a loose hair covering, tends to be neutral, whereas the kind that leaves goes right round the head and neck, leaving only the face showing, seems to be favoured by the more educated, more politically active women.
That's how it appears to me, anyway.

[FGT]

[Otterman Ollie]

This crappy piece of cloth is an affront and an insult to women .Most of them are FORCED to wear it ,there is nothing in the Koran that tells women they have to wear it and because of this foul rag they are denied the right to a better education . The whole concept of it just appals me .The prime minister wants the ban lifted , by doing this the people (seculrists ) think women who don't wear the scarf will come under peer pressure to adopt that style of dress . Too many people think this country is another Iran waiting to happen .

[hobo]

I was chatting to Baba Alex about this and he had this to say......

It seems rather strange that the government that is talking about freedom of religious expression and education is the same government that bought in article 301 and is currently prosecuting two professors who were asked to report a governmental report on minorities in Turkey.

If the law is sexist this only goes to point out that the religion itself is sexist. The ban is not on women who want to express their religion; the ban is on religious symbolism in public institutions. Just as religion has its symbolic acts, as does secularism. That said, a more lax law might ease tensions and allow those covered women who do not want an Islamic state more say in the process that can protect the democracy that is Turkey.

The headscarf issue is simply a vote winner for the AKP, talk to any politically aware Turk and they'll tell you that the party is committing far worse political atrocities such as the forcing of farmers to plant GM seeds that will ultimately cause food shortages and the privatisation of public companies that may create a sort term mirage of economic stability within the country but will ultimately only benefit the rich and increase poverty levels.

If we want to think about freedom, let's think for a moment on a Nelson Mandela quote "
While poverty persists, there is no true freedom". It's all very well going on about how middle class covered girls are stopped from going to university, but what about the boys on the street shinning your shoes, the girls in the south-east married off at the age of 14, or the fact only a tiny minority of children work working class environments get to study at university. Who's promising to give THEM freedom of education?


.... Well thanks for that Baba Alex, I'm surewe can all muse upon that for a few moments.

[dmb]

Did Baba say anything about honour killings and suicides amongst 14 year girls who were going to be married off to 50 year old men?

[hobo]

[dmb]

If I bump into him on Friday night at the England game in Balans I'll ask him.

[justme]

Right on, hobo, I mean Baba.

I've often though the headscarf issue is wagging the dog-- a charged political question to clog up the airways and get all the attention while the government fails to concern itself with matters of real importance, like poverty, and busies itself with further lining the pockets of the rich.