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shaner · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 47 Location: Medellin, Colombia

I have had a couple of problems in a class with one paticular student. She is 30 years old and I would say her English is at an Intermediate level.

The problem is when we are doing grammar in class she gets abrasive and has actually told me that I was wrong. I have tried to be patient and explain things to her, but now the other students are getting annoyed because she is taking up class time trying to get the upper hand.

Then, when I do finally explain things, she sits with a face for the rest of the class because she was incorrect.

Man, teaching English is great, but we are dealing with people and emotions, sometimes difficult.

I don't take it personally. Just move on to the next class. Fortunatly, she won't be in my class much longer.

lozwich · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 1536

Hi Shaner,

I see you're in Colombia, as am I. I've come across similar things from time to time, and put it down to the way some people have learned rules that they take for written in stone, inflexible prescriptions in English class at school. Somtimes I'll have a student swearing black and blue that a rule is this way, and often for very odd reasons, and I ask them where they've learned it and it invariably turns out to be in class at school. I imagine that it would be quite a source of frustration to have spent time learning something, only to be told later its wrong. Also, she might feel proud that her level of English is so good, and then shamed to discover it isn't.

You say you won't have her for much longer, so I'd suggest just waiting it out, but if it comes up again with a different student, I'd take them to one side, explain that they need some work on grammar and suggest some extra homework. If they're older, you could even mention that English teaching methodology has changed over the years. I tried that with an older student, and although we still came up against things she'd been taught 20 years ago that were patently wrong, her acceptance of the difference came a lot easier.

Good luck,
Lozwich.

jfurgers · Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 442 Location: Mexico City

I had a student like that this past semester in my beginning pronunciation & speaking skills class. She was a retired teacher of literature. She taught for 40 years and thought that the way she taught literature was the way I was supposed to teach ESL.

She was always trying to stop me in the middle of a class to explain things to me and to try and tell me what the students needed. I took her outside and informed her that this was MY class, not hers and that she had zero experience teaching ESL therefore she needed to stop disturbing the class.

Not one student in that class liked her. She also believed that we were only supposed to follow the book, nothing more. I teach ESL to adults in the States but I do not let them tell me how to run my class. As for the grammar, the college where I teach in Texas is full of students who could teach an English grammar class but they can't get good jobs because their SPEAKING skills are pathedic.

This is because they feel or were wrongly taught that if they want to learn how to SPEAK a language they ONLY need to learn the grammar. This is completely false. You only learn how to speak a language by speaking the language. This from one of my pfofessors at SMU who is a linguistic and speaks probably 15 languages and has been teaching ESL/EFL for 40 years.

Don't let a student control your classroom. Take them outside and tell them not to do that. And for the grammar, I've worked at Universities for the past 12 years and I know for a FACT that not one Ph.D agrees with the grammar rules. Write a paper and take it to five different professors with degrees in English and they will each correct it DIFFERENTLY and will DISAGREE with each other over the whys.

I let my students know that fluency is more important than accuracy in the REAL WORLD. Students develope a false confidence because they sometimes feel like they're doing well in class but then they get in the REAL WORLD where people don't articulate and put prepositions at the end of their sentences, and they can't understand what the person is saying.

Why??? Because they are SOOOOO concerned with ONLY the rules. It's sad to see how so many students believe that ONLY grammar is necessary to learn how to speak.

Jetgirly · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741

I remember teaching a lesson on words to describe family members, and one of my students telling me that I was categorically wrong. According to this student, "aunt" is the word for your mother's mother, and "grandmother" is the word for your mother's sister. He just wouldn't drop it, and with vocabulary there isn't much you can do to support your stance if you're in a trailer at the back of a military aircraft production facility without a dictionary on hand. After a while I started to think that maybe I had been out of Canada for too long, and that I'd become confused... but after two years back in Canada I am quite sure that "aunt" is my mom's sister, and "grandmother" is my mom's mom!

MO39 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:55 am Post subject:

GueroPaz · Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Thailand or Mexico

For native speakers of Spanish, who are learning English, their native tongue may have fooled them into relying too much on the alphabet and the grammar system. Their language is phonetic, and while they have irregular verbs and exceptions to the rules, it's basically a Latin language that follows the rules more closely. Thus, they're tempted to accept English grammar as the Rosetta stone or a magic prism by which they translate the entire language.

Here in Thailand, Thai teachers of English rely too heavily on grammar and have horrendous problems with pronunciation, spelling, and context, because those don't follow rules!

I haven't experienced it myself, but have heard that the worst students are experienced, female teachers in another field. They've brainwashed themselves into thinking they're right! I like the idea of taking them aside privately and telling them you have to be the boss in that classroom. For those of you who are younger than such students, your authority may not be accepted.

MO39 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:44 am Post subject:

MixtecaMike · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 643 Location: Guatebad

MELEE · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject:

MO39 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject:

OOOPS!

MO39 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject:

OOOPS!

MO39 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject:

MELEE · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject:

I teach mostly beginners, so my example comes from that level.

Almost every beginner coursebook includes the following false rule.

Use some in affirmative sentances any in negative and questions.

While this explains some uses of some and any it is most certainly NOT a rule in English. It would be much better to tell the students the truth from the beginning. Look at the following examples.

I like some Latin music.
I like any Latin music.
I don't like some Latin music.
I don't like any Latin music.
Do you like some Latin music?
Do you like any Latin music?
Don't you like some Latin music?
Don't you like any Latin music?

Clearly some and any can each be used in affirmative, negative, and questions (I threw in negative questions for fun).

The above example illistrate the true some/any rule.
some=part of a whole
any=all or nothing

Not too complicated is it? So why do we continue to lie to the students?

GueroPaz · Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Thailand or Mexico

My apology (as an older, male teacher). We might be even pedanticer than a female teacher.

Lately I've been tutoring a high intermediate student who uses Headway Intermediate for her grammar. She's one of my most advanced students, and Headway comes up with some "British rules" that we just never used in Illinois or Texas. Melee, I think you're correct that some EFL textbooks use rules that don't exist.

What are some more rules that Mr. Lewis abhors?

Samantha · Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera

It�s not that the rule she gave as an example doesn't exist (nor is it a "lie"). It is a starting point in learning the language. A sharp teacher expounds on grammar points which are a little tricky.

http://esl.about.com/od/teachingbeginners/a/ab_17beg.htm

As far as British English, it's the same in Mexico. Many language schools use British teaching materials but for many native English speakers in the world, including Canadians, this is familiar stuff. I can always tell if a previous student had an American teacher because there is opportunity for lively discussion about differences. (eg: over word spellings with the "u", and the use of practise vs practice, license vs licence).

http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammartips/grammar-tip-practise-practice.asp