Job Discussion Forums

saphron234 · Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 3

I lived in Madrid for a year between 2006-2007. Now I'm coming back after graduating college and I want to get a job teaching English. I'll be going in October. I taught English before, but only for a month so I don't know that much about it. I taught for a company in Spain but I can't go back to them because I had to quit early to return home and they were pretty unhappy with me. I also tutored privately for about six months so I'm not going in with absolutely no experience. I have a lot of questions though. Is it a bad idea to have the company I worked for on my resume? Will other companies call them up?

I know when I did it before, I was able to work illegally. My understanding is that if I work illegally teaching English, I'll probably pull in about 1,000 euros a month which will be enough to get by. Is this about right? How long should it take me to find a job? How great is the possibility that I won't be able to make enough to just pay my expenses? I have my TEFL certificate but I received it in an online course. Will it be helpful to me?

Also, does anybody know anything about translations? How one enters into that world? I've never done it before and don't really know if I'm qualified. I only took one course in college. But I was wondering if that's at all an option...like is there a course or something or does everyone require a masters?

So that's a lot of questions. If anyone has any answers for me at all I would really appreciate it! Thanks so much.

mdk · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425

So why do you want to start off in Spain by being an illegal immigrant?

You've got some decent credentials, why don't you go over first and spec it out for a few months? I am currently back in the states to scrape up a grub stake to go back over. It's not that fun, but I like it better than having to worry about having a black mark on my record with Spanish immigration.

I plan to go back after the first of the year. When I do that, I figure to arrange my affairs so that I can be there legally. If I can't do that, then Spain will have to take it's chances without me and I will go spend some time in Croatia.

The sea in Dubrovnik has much better swimming than Barcelona anyway.

saphron234 · Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 3

I was under the impression that it was almost impossible for an American to get a working VISA in Spain. I'm only going for a year and I definitely don't have the money to be flying back and forth. How would I go about it and about how much does it cost?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

It IS essentially impossible.

mdk's got enough financial cushion to try it and a back up plan if (when) it doesn't work, and the stubborness (pardon - it's not necessarily a negative trait, am not trying to flame the guy) to try it against the odds.

But, saphron, don't delude yourself that you're going to be able to find a way to get a legal working permit. You are 99.99% facing working illegally for a year. It's a risk. Lots of people do it. But there are risks, and if you are going to do it anyway, at least go into the thing with your eyes open - as your original post indicated you were doing.

An online TEFL cert is a disadvantage in the European job market, where the vast majority of newbies have a degree and an on-site certification. You're going to be at the bottom of the hiring heap, for sure. However, the fact that you've been there before, and presumably speak decent Spanish (I'm assuming from your question about translation) may help even things out.

I believe that you are facing a pretty tight year, in terms of finances, but if you're careful, I suppose it's possible for you to make it. Try to save as much as possible before you go over, and be sure you have enough money to get you through the first couple of months and to get you home in case of bad luck.

mdk · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425

Spiral's remarks are well-considered provided you insist on going over on such limited resources.

However, I would like to speak in the general case as your situation seems to come up quite commonly on the board.

It seems to me that if you really want to do this then it is worth the preparation to take some moderately unpleasant work and save up some decent money to back you up first. When I was much younger I went over to Spain on a serious case of pie in the sky and big hopes but laughably little cash. It was pretty much of a disaster.

It didn't have to be that way. I could have done a little more preparation and made a serious go of it back then, but I was too impatient. Having gone over later in life - after I had prepared adequately - it was an entirely different experience. You sound like a fairly young person and it seems to me if you take the long view, with a little bit of preparation you have a much better chance of pulling something out of the hat.

Finally, Spain is a diverse place and if you try your luck outside Madrid and Barcelona you may find people more willing to hire you.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

mdk, your case is admittedly different from most newbies, who tend to be younger and less well-financed. Go for it, try to get legal. When you can't, you've got backup plans.

But please don't muddy the waters on the basic message. The hiring laws of Spain are national laws, and a US citizen (or Canadian or Aussie) is not going to find legal work (99.99%) regardless of the size of the city/town, or what region he/she is looking in.

Lots of people work illegally in Spain. It's seen as an acceptable risk by many. But don't go all starry-eyed, imagining that you're going to find some loophole. You are facing illegal work, and there are risks.

mdk's point about having financial backup is valid. A backup plan is also useful.

saphron234 · Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 3

Well, my ticket's booked. I'm leaving in October. So it's too late now to turn back and try to just work here for a year before I go. Plus I really don't want to. I know other people who have gone to Madrid to teach English and seem to be fine. That's why it strikes me as strange that you're all telling me that there's a slim chance that I will be able to make it for a year there. Should I be expecting to dip into my savings the whole year? I'm probably good financially for the first couple of months and I already have a ticket home that I could just change to an earlier date if necessary.

Spiral, when you say most newbies have a degree, you mean most newbies have a degree in education specifically? Do you suggest I take the TEFL certificate off of my resume?

So does anyone have an answer as to how long it generally takes to find such jobs as an illegally working American? How about any general positive things to say that might lift my spirits a bit and make me feel better about this whole thing?

mdk · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

saphron, you'll be able to find work. It sounds like you've got enough financial backing to work this out. You said you're just going to do it for a year - many people find this an acceptable risk. Yeah, you may dip into savings throughout your stay, but hopefully you shouldn't have to after startup costs are completed.

My point is that there's slim to no chance that you will find LEGAL work, NOR will you be at the top of the heap of newbies, lacking both an EU passport and a certification from a course that includes supervised teaching practice.

To clarify, most newbies have a degree in SOMETHING - not necessarily education. No, don't take the TEFL cert off your CV. As I noted before, if your Spanish is passable, that could very well help offset your less-than-usual certification.

I disagree with mdk about seeking smaller cities. Venues where the central government is not 'liked' still can't issue working visas that are in opposition to national law.

If you're going to be illegal, it's best to be in venues where you're far from the only illegal worker around - that means Barca or Madrid. There's safety (and camaraderie) in numbers.

Go to Madrid (you said that's your plan). You've got enough financial backiing so that you won't end up standing on a street corner begging for change. You'll get work - be sure you use all your offsetting qualities - dress professionally, emphasize your Spanish studies, the fact that you've spent time in the country in the past. You'll most likely be all right.

Never thought I'd encourage someone to go illegally! But your ticket's booked, as you said, and the reality is that you can most likely make it work for a year.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

By the way, there's a poster on the Mexico forum, MO39, who spent a year in Spain (2006, I think) in your same case. You might try to get some info from her.

tabbicat · Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 12

mdk · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425

Maybe I'm getting to feel my age but I could never enjoy myself or relax as an illegal alien. Sure, I know expats who have been in Spain for five years without authorization, but I consider them little better than the the Africans selling doo-dads on little sheets of cloth on the sidewalk - who gather up their stuff and run away when the look-out shouts, "Cheese it! the cops!" Maybe even less than that, because you can make a living here, but they can't.

It is quite true that you can probably live illegaly in Spain indefinitely as long as you keep your nose clean and have a bit of luck. Does that mean you should do it? Do you drive your car without insurance or a license in the states? You could probably get away with it for awhile at least.

I have given you several alternative approaches to (maybe) getting legal permission to stay and work in Spain. I think you would be well-advised to follow one of them, but maybe you are not ready to learn that yet.

Geez! I can't believe I am arguing in favor of visa laws. The fact remains, however, that they exist and one breaks them at their own risk.

MO39 · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject:

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

mdk, your alternative approaches aren't viable.

Schools in smaller towns still can't rewrite national hiring laws. It does not matter how much they would like to hire you.

Student visas are usually dependent upon the applicant being a current university student in the US (in this case). It's not an IMPOSSIBLE option, but highly unlikely for someone who's got a flight ticket for October.

mdk · Joined: 09 Jun 2007 Posts: 425

Perhaps you are correct. I never actually heard anybody in Gallicia say that they would have to check with Madrid to make sure that they were totally in compliance, but perhaps that is the case. Certainly in the Pays Basque, this is a subject of constant worry to them, so it would be obviously poorly considered to go up there and give it a try.

Upon reflectionI agree with you, the OP is much better to drop into Madrid and give it a shot. I don't want to rain on his parade. I am personally hoping for that phone call from Heather Locklear asking me to come along and be her guide through the Prado. Perhaps the OP and I can meet for a sherry in the retiro after the tooth fairy makes our respective ships come in.