Job Discussion Forums

[BillPierce]

I originally did some teaching of university level composition and academic writing during and shortly after earning an M.A. and doing doctoral study in English (I left before completing my Ph.D.) many years ago. Then I spent nearly 30 years in other careers (journalism and information technology). After experiencing some covert age discrimination (I'm 59) in the computer field, I decided to return to my roots in education. Looking at the changes in the student body at North American universities in the years since I taught, I realized that a background in ESL might well be advantageous today. So I went back to school and obtained ESL certification.

Now I'm finding it very difficult to re-enter the job market for teaching. There seems to be a lot of reluctance on the part of employers to consider someone who has spent many years in other fields. I realize that any new entrant has to overcome some initial hurdles, but I have to conclude that my age places an additional burden on me that most others do not face. This is despite my own long experience in a field with a large percentage of younger people and my belief that I continue to have a "young" attitude. I also feel I bring a lifetime of experience and a perspective that many younger teachers do not yet have.

My lack of success in obtaining an ESL teaching job domestically leads me to wonder if I might best gain that initial job and experience teaching abroad. However, I also have heard that in many countries there are no age discrimination laws and sometimes even explicit age limits for foreign ESL teachers.

I'm willing to leave my family and teach in another country for 6-12 months, believing that the experience might be beneficial and rewarding. But I'm also seeking the opinions of those who are more familiar with teaching abroad as to where an older teacher might find the least resistance and the best situation. I'm hoping as well for some confirmation that it would actually aid me in finding employment when I return.

Any advice and guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Bill Pierce
Burlington, Ontario

[spiral78]

Bill - I sympathise with your situation - immigrants are among the best student groups in the world to teach, in terms of motivation and behavior.

I don't know anything specifically about the Ontario job market, and I suggest that you copy your original post to the 'North America' forum, where you may get more responses from knowledgeable Canadians.

However, I have taught at the uni level in Alberta, and I can offer a bit of feedback on your situation.

It is not likely your age that is a hindrance in your re-entering the teaching professions, at least not from an ESL standpoint. I currently work with at least 3 teachers who are older than you say that you are.

It is, unfortunately, more likely to do with your education and experience. Many North American unis are primarily interested in hiring candidates with MA TESL/TEFL, or MA applied linguistics. Further, an MA earned longer ago than 15 years is not considered a strong qualification, as research has driven relatively radical changes in approaches and methods over the past 10 - 15 years.

As for experience, yes. You do need it. However, one year abroad isn't likely to make you a much stronger candidate for those fairly rare uni positions teaching language.

As an example, I can give you a bit of info about the teachers in the department where I am based: of 12, all have lived abroad for at least 3 years, and most of us speak at least 2 other languages at a competent level. 9 have related MAs. On the rare occasions when openings come up, only candidates with related MAs are considered, and at least 3 years of previous experience is preferred.

The reason this is so is that the job market is really quite small throughout North America. There are just not that many openings in the language departments of universities. This was a bit different 10 years ago, when a retired third-grade teacher was eligible for positions in our department (she was a dreadful ESL teacher, by the way).

Anyway, good luck to you. Perhaps others will have a different perspective on your situation and can offer more info on Ontario in particular.

[Glenski]

[BillPierce]

I was inquiring in which countries there is likely to be less age discrimination, both overt and otherwise.

My primary motivation for considering ESL teaching abroad is to acquire experience that would make it less difficult to gain employment domestically when I return, if that indeed would be so. At the present time it would be a considerable hardship on my family, and to some extent on myself, if I were gone for longer than a year. My wife has her own well-established career and we have children in high school.

Yes, perhaps I also might consider teaching abroad for a longer time at some point in the future, but I would want to try it first before making that decision.

I believe I have skills and experience to offer. I'm trying to find where and how I might have the best opportunity to apply them.

[BillPierce]

Additionally, I recognise I am not such a desirable candidate for university teaching positions. As a result, I am primarily seeking positions with two-year colleges and adult ESL programs.

[spiral78]

I am still unsure that a year or two abroad will make you a stronger candidate for positions in Canada, but there is little age discrimination in Central/Eastern Europe. You could certainly land a job and probably break even in financial terms over a year in the Czech Republic or Poland, for example.

You said that you are TEFL-certified. If your certification is from an on-site course with a teaching practicum involving real students and feedback from experienced teacher trainers (as versus online or without a teaching practicuum) you are certainly qualified for the many newbie jobs that are going in Central/Eastern Europe.

[Stephen Jones]

You find your age hinders you getting a job in the field you have been working in for many years, so you go off and apply in a field you have no experience in at all and are amazed when you find your age is even more of a problem!

[BillPierce]

My ESL certification was received via a 13-week intensive course (250 classroom hours, 30 hours observation and 20 hours practice teaching) from an accredited Canadian college (Seneca College in Toronto). The requirement for admittance to the program is a bachelor's degree from an accredited institution. I'd say it was equivalent to a master's level graduate course in applied linguistics or education. The certification itself is required for all those who teach ESL in a government-funded program for recent immigrants to Canada. I've also been doing some sporadic supply (substitute) teaching in such programs, but I have not had any offers of anything but casual employment. I am not certified as a regular public secondary school teacher.

It's interesting that you mention Eastern Europe. Among my motivations for ESL teaching is that my wife is originally from Romania (she emigrated to Canada in 1992). We just returned from four weeks in Romania, which was my first trip there and her first time back in 10 years. While I didn't love everything about the country, I did find it fascinating and I believe I could work and live there at least for a period of time.

Is there an association of English-language schools or programs in Romania that I could contact regarding availabilities? My wife says she no longer knows anyone there who she believes could be of any help to me.

[BillPierce]

Stephen, after more than 20 years in information technology, I have found that the field is particularly age-averse. The perception, whether valid or not, is that old dogs learn new tricks only poorly if at all.

I didn't believe this would be so true in ESL teaching. I've been a communicator of one kind or another all of my life; as I said, I feel I bring a perspective that many younger teachers do not yet have. I'm not expecting preferential treatment, merely approximately the same consideration as other qualified applicants.

Moreover, I suppose my inspiration is the experience of my own father, who at the age of 65 faced mandatory retirement (this was before age discrimination laws) from his business job, and started a second career as a college teacher (he had a long disused MBA degree). He maintained that teaching was the best thing that ever happened to him, and he continued until fully retiring at the age of 76.

[naturegirl321]

AS far as Romania goes, try www.sol.org.uk or international school.

[spiral78]

I am still doubtful that a little overseas experience is going to substantially help you to land you a full-time, permanent position in ESL in Canada. However, it can't hurt your chances.

So:

The general wisdom is that it's rare to find jobs from abroad in Central/Eastern Europe, unless you've got specialist qualifications (which you haven't - though your certification is certainly solid). The other case in which jobs can be found from abroad is when the school is located in some very out-of-the way place.

The bulk of language teaching is through private schools, which cater primarily to businesspeople. Teachers generally travel around to offices to meet with their students. Beware long split shifts - newbies can get stuck with things like 7 am starts and 8 pm finishes, with nothing going in the late morning or early afternoon.
Few classes are conducted at the schools, in these private language centres.

You might possibly get a position at a state school, though they usually want someone with experience. However, these jobs in Central/Eastern Europe may pay little in comparison with the private schools - this is true for local teachers (and doctors and nurses) as well. The governmental pay scales just aren't yet up to par.

Normal contract periods are usually Sept - June, though there is often an intake in early January, to fill positions where teachers didn't return from the holidays. That said, some job openings can usually be found any time of the year other than August by knocking on doors.

The most feasible (though not the only possilbe) plan is to choose a country, come over in mid-late August, and knock on doors. Whatever you choose to do, you'll need to count on being without a pay check for at least two - three months (language schools pay monthly, at the end of the month worked), and landlords will want a month's rent as a depsit and a month's rent up front.
European schools don't pay airfare, but should help you with the work permit processes and often assist you in finding accomodation.

I suggest that you might want to post on the country-specific forums, for more focused info on countries you may be interested in working in.

[Stephen Jones]

Dear Bill,

Let me tell you the reason behind age discrimination. It's all to do with an excess of supply of labor over demand.

If there are a load of IT qualified people then they start getting picky and at 45 you're not over the hill, but over the Himalayas. If there is a massive glut then the only people taken on are those under 25 who could double as models.

If the tables are turned, and there is an excess of demand over supply, then age discrimination disappears and they will offer contracts galore with free Zimmer frames included.

The problem with Canada is that they continued training people in government institutions in IT even after the dotcom bubble had burst. Add to that the long-standing policy of enticing highly qualified immigrants even though there are no jobs for them and you've got a mess on your hands.

The problem with teaching EFL in Canada is the same. There is a massive surplus of EFL teachers and as a result most jobs are part-time and badly paid.

You can get a full-time EFL job outside Canada, but don't expect ever to get full-time employment on a decent salary within Canada. There are too many people thirty years younger than you with loads more experience competing for the same jobs.

You can get a jpb abroad, but of course it will be in a market where there is a shortage of supply, and in EFL that normally means in not too pleasant a place that pays badly.

[Justin Trullinger]

I might sum it up this way- while you can certainly get work overseas, and probably also in Canada, it's likely to be pretty entry level. (Read, full time but low paid overseas, part time, hourly paid, and still hard to come by in Canada.) This, even though your certification sounds like a good one. (Canadian semester intensive uni programs have a good rep generally.)

The problem is that a lot of people have the same qualification- and are willing to work under less than ideal conditions. (They often don't have your responsibilities. Ageism is an ugly creature, but is often unknowingly supported by youngsters who live cheap and keep the market values down.)

To move into long term, stable, reasonably well paid work in North America is going to be a longish road. I'd think about getting as much experience overseas as you can, and looking into a good, accredited distance MA TESOL program while you do it. (I believe most Canadian unis will give you credit for your certification course, so this shouldn't be time prohibitive. THis is only hearsay, so check with unis...) Only a year or two experience isn't a strong card in your hand to teach in Canada. But a year or two and an MA may tip the scales.

Honestly, though, to make this work, you'd be talking about making a pretty big investment in terms of time, effort, and tuition feed. English teaching is a great job, in my opinion. I'm not sure, though, how willing I'd be to invest so much of myself in getting into it, know that I'd have all the hard years, working my way up with study, low wages, and less than ideal conditions, and would then very likely be looking to retire around the time I got to the good part.

Good luck whatever you decide,

Justin

[arioch36]

In China, your age is not a problem. You will be treated like anyone else

TESL, can walk, you are hired.

Getting a better job based on a couple years teaching abroad ...? Not a chance