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trewth
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: Help! What to do with the CELTA, no degree? |
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Greetings!
I just tried searching for the answer to my question, but the search engine wasn't working so I will post here in hopes that I can get some quality feedback.
I am a 21 year old American male, who will soon complete the CELTA. I have a few years of college under my belt, but am not interested in going back (just yet) and would rather travel, learn more languages, and obviously, teach abroad.
After reading about 100 different of posts, I am getting the feeling that before attempting to find a modestly paying job in a country with an OK standard of living, I am going to have to accept the lowest paying job in a terrible location. I am lead to believe this because I will only have the CELTA, no college degree, and no teaching experience.
My question: Is this true? Will I really be relegated to teaching in a substandard location, while working my butt off and making next to nothing?
If so, where in the world would be the best location to start, gain teaching experience, and enjoy life?
Thanks for your time and responses! |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Help! What to do with the CELTA, no degree? |
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| trewth wrote: |
| because I will only have the CELTA, no college degree, and no teaching experience... Will I really be relegated to teaching in a substandard location, while working my butt off and making next to nothing? |
Tonnes of people go to 'substandard locations' for vacations every year. Instead of referring to them as 'substandard', they usually prefer to use the term 'exotic'. See, it's all in your point of view.
Does it not seem weird to imply that you would be 'relegated' to lower paying jobs (the ones that have less competition) just because you have neither the basic qualification required to do this, nor any experience at all? If you were spending thousands of dollars a year to learn say, Japanese, would you want to find out that the person teaching you Japanese was some guy who graduated high school, didn't finish university, had no experience and thought of your home country as a 'substandard location'?
If you want to work in the countries in which you can make money that would be reasonable in your country, then you will need a degree. The countries that most people from North America with degrees go to are Korea, Japan and Taiwan. You need a degree to wok in any of these countries. Keep in mind though that while other countries pay less, the cost of living is also much lower so in the country you can have a lifestyle just as good as those who are teaching in Japan etc (within the context of what is avilable in the particular setting- if you live in Japan, but way out in a rural area, you still are likely to not have internet or transportation, or even western toilets), it's just that sending money home to pay of student debts or put into a retirement plan isn't going to be as much, of course.
This is not a case of work for a few years and work your way up. You need a degree to work in these countries. A decade of experience in China is not going to help you get a job in Japan if you don't have a degree.
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If so, where in the world would be the best location to start, gain teaching experience, and enjoy life?
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I'm not really sure, because you are the type of person to describe countries and therefore cultures as 'substandard', so what is interesting to me may be a 'substandard' enjoyment of life for you. You would need to write what you would like to do. |
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mcsam
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with GambatebingbangBOOM.
Substandard is a horrible word to use and it says a lot about the way you are viewing things.
If you are in this job just to make money think again. I do not know anyone who ever got rich teaching EFL.
Is this just something to do for a couple of years or do you envisage yourself teaching for a long time?
I don't have a degree and yes, I had to take the low paying jobs to begin with and yes, I did have to work hard to prove myself but, it's the same in any job, you can't expect to start something new and go straight to the top and earn the "big bucks".
I started my EFL career in China. I guess this is one of the "substandard" countries you refer to. There are some good schools in China but you have to be very careful about which one you choose. I was lucky, I had a great D.o.S who taught me loads and enabled me to move on. I found China very hard but if you survive there it makes just about anywhere else in the world seem much easier by comparison.
I am now working in the U.A.E. having been in several other countries gaining experience and additional qualifications. If this is a serious career move and not just a stop gap I would recommend getting as many EFL qualifications as you can but there is no doubt about it, having a degree makes everything a lot simpler and the choice of countries available to you increases dramatically. However, it is possible to do this job and get good positions (after a while) without one.
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trewth
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I knew that people would get very touchy about saying something as general as 'substandard.'
Personally, I would consider a location 'substandard' if it was very polluted, crime-ridden, poverty stricken, unhospitable, and unwelcoming to foreigners. Sorry, if it isn't politically correct to say some places are better than others, but that is the way I see the world - not every place is the same. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to living in other places with a lower standard of living then the US, in fact I really enjoy it.
Thanks for your advice about specific locations. I'm not really looking for a lecture on my view of the world, just would like to know what places would be best for 'some guy out of high school with no degree' and only a CELTA to get started. Thanks! |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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You don't legally need a degree to work in most Central/Eastern European countries, but you'll find the pay and living conditions at a 'lower' standard than the US.  |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| You might start off in a low paying job, but work on your connections, and you can move off. Also, privates pay pretty well. In addition, you could probably finish your degree by distance. |
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Girl Scout
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 525
Location: Inbetween worlds
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: |
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You just don't get it. Your 'world view' will influence what suggestions people will make. You have already eliminated half of the world through both your lack of degree and comments.
I suggest you stay home and do some volunteer work. Get some experience and decide if this is what you want to do before you travel half way around the world just to be unhappy. |
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TheLongWayHome
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Help! What to do with the CELTA, no degree? |
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| trewth wrote: |
I am lead to believe this because I will only have the CELTA, no college degree, and no teaching experience.
My question: Is this true? Will I really be relegated to teaching in a substandard location, while working my butt off and making next to nothing? |
It's one of the myths of tefl. Yes, a wad of qualifications help but a lack of a degree does not rule you out of a good job. As the board says, if you go with that attitude then you'll most likely find yourself in a crap job - but look around, they'll be teachers sh�tting degrees doing the same job as you. Don't worry, this is tefl. It's more about being in the right place at the right time and of course, being able to teach.
Some of the best teachers I've seen in Mexico did not even have CELTAs and some of the worst had degrees and MAs in TESL.
So, if you want to worry about something, worry about whether you can teach or not.
Good luck! |
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trewth
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I appreciate the quality suggestions and encouragement. I certaintly look forward to the challenges that teaching in a foreign country provides someone like myself. Right now I'm thinking that my destination will be somewhere in Southeast Asia, South America, or possibly Europe.
In the future I will be sure to clarify that all places on the planet are equally good. My reference of a hypothetical "substandard location," definitely angered some people out there (who are probably stuck in such a situation). Not to worry though, even if I end up in such a place I will most likely have a better attitude than these particularly sensitive people.
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Sgt Killjoy
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| If you are a go-getter and know how to market yourself well, the degree issue becomes less and less of a problem. Sure, you legally teach in Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the middle east, but that still leaves a lot of the world and with good marketing of your skills, you could easily make a decent living. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Substandard location avoider wrote: |
| My reference of a hypothetical "substandard location," definitely angered some people... even if I end up in such a place |
If you actually did a university degree, then you wouldn't have to worry about ending up in a 'substandard location' (nor very low pay, if you work at it). Teaching EFL is about teaching communication- appropriate communication- in English. Look at skills you can earn which may be of use to you as an English teacher, if you do a degree.
| this site wrote: |
Are there jobs out there that ask for humanities graduates?
Of course, you need something concrete when you get out of university. All this talk about careers and vocations may be fine, but there are student loans to pay and nice things to buy. Will your humanities degree lead directly to your first job?
If you're looking for a job that says in the job ad "humanities degree preferred", you won't find many of those. That doesn't mean that your degree doesn't lead to a job, though. You have to think in terms of marketing the skills you have developed. You have to translate your skills for an employer. This is where your ability to understand and communicate becomes crucial. What skills have you gained? Start with these, and add some of your own:
Independent learning skills - Learning how to learn.
Research skills - Knowing where to find information and ideas, and being able to critically judge between various sources of ideas.
Writing skills - The ability to structure your thoughts coherently and express yourself in ways that are appropriate to the occasion.
Speaking skills - The ability to confidently and clearly express your ideas. The ability to convince someone of your arguments and persuade them of your point of view.
Critical thinking skills - The ability to tell better ideas from worse, the ability to test ideas by subjecting them to relevant criteria.
Problem-solving skills - The ability to understand and express a problem that needs to be solved, and the knowledge of various methods of analysis that might be relevant to the problem.
Interdisciplinary skills - The ability to work at the borders of traditional forms of knowledge, using the resources from more than one area to help define a problem and suggest approaches to it.
Global understanding and cultural sensitivity - The ability to appreciate cultures and religious traditions outside of your own.
Historical understanding - The ability to see how and why things came to be as they are.
Aesthetic understanding - The ability to recognize and produce visual, narrative, and musical structure, order, and appeal.
Perspectival understanding - The ability to understand how other people or groups think.
Adaptability - The ability to apply knowledge and skills to a wide variety of contexts.
The ability to ask good questions - Recognizing that all knowledge is really the answer to questions, and that truly understanding something means understanding the questions that are asked, and being able to refine those questions to produce better knowledge.
Time and resource management skills - The ability to work under pressure and maximize resources to produce a desired outcome.
Linguistic skills - The ability to operate in more than one language.
In a sense you have to do exactly what business colleges think we should all do, which is to market yourself in a competitive world. And how do you market something? You know your product (yourself, in this case), and you know your market (what's available out there, what the range of options are, who might be interested in someone with your skills). Some highly professionalized careers have very controlled access points (e.g., medicine, law), governed by qualification exams in their areas. A humanities degree might be the first step to one of those professional programs. That suggests more school, which would be necessary for many desirable careers today.
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I emphasized some of the things in which you seem to be lacking, based on your posts on this thread. |
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trewth
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the marketing tip Sgt. Killjoy. I would love to hear any of your first job stories. Where you applied, if there was a contract, how you marketed yourself, etc. I know that I have a lot to learn in these aspects of the teaching industry, so hopefully I'll be able to prepare myself well for that intimidating first job.
Also, many thanks to GambateBingBangBOOM. That bit on marketing a Humanities degree is quite helpful --- unfortunately though it won't apply to me because as I've already mentioned (and I believe the title of this thread quite clearly explains) I have NO degree. Nonetheless, the text you copied does highlite some quality skills that even degree-less people might be able to possess.
p.s. thanks a million for the enlarged text, i would've been lost w/out it!  |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| trewth wrote: |
| many thanks to GambateBingBangBOOM. That bit on marketing a Humanities degree is quite helpful --- unfortunately though it won't apply to me because as I've already mentioned (and I believe the title of this thread quite clearly explains) I have NO degree. |
If you were to read the post, you may find that it is a suggestion that you go back to school and get a degree. Another skill that you get from completing a degree is the ability to read text fairly closely.
This is especially true if you are thinking in terms of a career in language teaching as opposed to travelling and teaching for a year or two. |
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Sgt Killjoy
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| trewth wrote: |
Thanks for the marketing tip Sgt. Killjoy. I would love to hear any of your first job stories. Where you applied, if there was a contract, how you marketed yourself, etc. I know that I have a lot to learn in these aspects of the teaching industry, so hopefully I'll be able to prepare myself well for that intimidating first job.
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When I started in TEFL more than 10 years ago. I had no degree(just 3 years in college), no TEFL and enthusiasm.
My first job was in Mexico City. The best advice I got(and it still rings true today) is that I could go and get a high paying job, but I'd probably lose it very quickly without having any skills. I was advised to go to a run of the mill institute and get experience for a few months. I took that advice and after I'd learned how to teach, it was onward and upward.
I've learned a lot since then about teaching, marketing, edutainment, and edubusiness. In the language institute industry, we are selling a service. If students don't like the service, we're out of a job. Students want to see value. The trick is to find out what typical students see as value in your target demographic and then deliver it.
I now have a 4 year degree and I've managed to do a TEFL course since I started in this crazy career. They haven't made me a better teacher, but they have given me the tools to expand my market.
My suggestion is to do a skills inventory, what skills do you have? How can those skills you already have relate to teaching English. Have you studied anything about teaching? Your public library will have books on Teaching English as a Foreign Language as well as grammar books. Study them. Now together a resume and cv to highlight your tefl related skills. You should be doing this whether or not you take a CELTA. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Easy solution; get a degree.
Barring that, do you speak any other languages fluently apart from English? |
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