Job Discussion Forums

[Jizzo T. Clown]

The motivation thread got me to thinking...

I teach at a tech high school in Korea, where the majority of students are not going on to university. While I like the challenge, I honestly can't see a reason why the students need to learn English other than their exams.

If I could relate their learning to some real world application, I would, but they live in Korea with no pressing need to use English. At one point I even had a student say "I hate English."

I try to tell them that there will be times in the future when they will have to learn things they don't necessarily want to, like how to operate machinery, but even then the motivation to learn will be there.

Plus they're high school students so they can't see past today, let alone three years from now.

How would you communicate to these kids that there is a need to learn English when you yourself can't see such a need?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

You could try to reach them with music or computer games.

High school kids are usually into that kind of stuff.

Find that 'something' that makes them tick

and then try to apply some learning.


Song lyrics are easy to find on the web

and the computer game craze is a topic they

might actually be willing to speak about in class.


I know; easier said than done but maybe worth the effort?

[Glenski]

I read a story in The Japan Times a couple of years ago. It was inspiring to me.

Seems that a Japanese man had written in to say thanks for all the help he'd received in high school English classes. At the time, he screwed off and didn't take the classes seriously, because he wasn't planning to go to university or have any sort of job related to using English. He graduated and started working with his father in his father's company. No need for English.

A year or two later, or something like that, his father's business expanded. That meant they needed to handle faxes and other communications in English. Since he was the freshest graduate with any sort of English education, the onus fell on him. Try telling your father/boss no! He struggled, he said, but later got better at it simply because he had to. That was his story. You never know when you might need it.

Tell your tech graduates this one.
Tell them they may need to find information on the Internet in English, or if they have to send an email for some information.
Tell them they may need to use English when traveling, when an English visitor comes to their town on vacation, for exchange school programs, or for business.

[arioch36]

I think intrinsic to hunan nature is that we feel better about ourselves when we succed in attempthing to do something worhwhile, when we make ouselves better.

The problem in most societies, especially with the boys, is that they are taught it is uncool to make themselves into a better person. So I have started such a class by telling them that whether or not they use English in the future, if they work hard in my class, they will feel good, and have more self-confidence. Most of them understand self-confidence is important to success.

Then I make them work hard for the next couple of weeks, doing things that they can and must succeed at.

About two boys in a class of thirty in this kind of class leave and never come back

[tedkarma]

I would tend to agree with Kent here.

It is difficult to motivate students when there is not a real need for what they are learning. It seems you have done a good job at explaining that life brings requirements to us sometimes and we just have to do them.

Then - as Kent suggests - games, music - just about anything you can do to make it fun and at least half way interesting.

[wildchild]

I try not to pressure the students too much. Not all of them want to be there and sometimes there is nothing that I can say or do that will change their outlook and I accept that.

Now, of course, I still give them the motivational speech and try to make the lessons interesting for them but I arrive at a point where I just accept the situation. I stop pressuring the student and that makes less stress for everyone, inside the classroom, at least.

[spiral78]

I've a friend who teaches at a vocational high school in Finland where most students have some learning disabilities, but nevertheless must pass basic English exams. Honestly, in some contexts, the need to pass exams is the only real (visibile, real-time, apparent) possible motivation.

Sometimes it's just better to acknowledge this and try to relate to the students from this standpoint...

The post mentioning some 'successful' learning discernable by the students hits the point discovered by my friend. It's about the only thing you can add in such a case: make the classes as geared toward the interests of your students (including their interests in passing the exams) as possible and try to set them up to see some success.

It's tough!

I have spent most of my teaching career in just the opposite situation: my students are usually very highly motivated and energized, because they have a real need to use the language in their daily lives, either as businesspeople in international corporations or as immigrants to English-speaking countries.

I think it must be quite difficult to face unmotivated learners on a daily basis. Kudos to all of you who do so!!

[MELEE]

Jizzo,

You might find the writings of Marc Prensky inspriational.

http://www.marcprensky.com/writing/

[basiltherat]

From my particular experience, I have had more success teaching abroad in countries where English can be used as a way out of poverty and injustice and where student self-motivation is high as a result.

For example, many Syrians are self-motivated to learn English just to be in a position to study or work abroad or even emigrate to nations such as UK and Canada where employment opportunities are more financially rewarding and where freedom of choice or expression is high. I felt the same when I was in Indonesia.

Perhaps in places such as Japan or Korea where one doesn't necessarily need to escape such things, there might be less motivation in existence.

My tuppence worth.

best
basil

[John Hall]

Your students have interests? What are they? How could it possibly be that they don't find anything at all interesting about cultures that speak English?

Show movies in English. Do English-language karaoke. Get your students participating on the student discussion forums on Dave's ESL Cafe. If you've got the technology, get them to use Skype to communicate with other English language learners around the world. Whatever it takes, show them that English is the key to that fascinating big, wide world out there!

[Jizzo T. Clown]

John Hall--

I admire your enthusiasm! Unfortunately most of what you suggest just isn't possible. I have 400 students who see me once a week for 50 minutes. Outside of that, they have too much work in their other classes, and I'm not allowed to assign homework.

Of course I make suggestions as to what they could do outside of class if they want to learn more, but I have yet to see a student take those suggestions.

btw, their level is extremely low (not surprising since I so rarely see them). For example, they seem to be unable to understand common classroom language like "Stand up" or "May I have a pen" even after several classes of reviewing this language. Yet their vocabulary (on paper anyway) is very impressive (i.e. "Technology" "superpower" etc).

And the majority of my students don't want to learn it if it's not going to be on the test--a product of a culture that revolves around test scores and doesn't reward critical thinking.

[John Hall]

I guess the big question is this: how much control do you have over the syllabus? Can you change it to at least make it interesting, in some way, for the students, if not practical?

Vocabulary seems to be one of their strengths. How about vocabulary games/competitions in class? Are the classes too large for that? Are their cultural considerations that make competition not "doable" in class? If so, how about competition between groups? That combines teamwork with competition.

Regarding your student who said to you that he hates English, that reminds me of a time when one of my students said the same thing to a guest speaker in my class; she also added that she was only taking English because it was necessary for her to graduate. The speaker commented that it is just necessary sometimes to do things because you have to in life. And then he added that you shouldn't let the things that you have to do (and don't like doing) get in the way of your dreams. From that moment on, that student's marks improved dramatically in her English course.

[william wallace]

Brilliant question: For me, the most creative way came to be to steer clear of it. I've only done ESP and EAP for the past 6-7 years.

[MELEE]

William,
Thank you for that helpful contribution to the topic.

Jizzo is in a difficult situation. He is teaching ENAP (English for No Aparent Reason) which goes beyound my and John Hall's situations. While we teach English as a required subject to students who probably wouldn't choose to take it. We are able to point out the reality that the best jobs in our countries will ask for English (often before looking at your techinical skills) grad schools ask for English for admission, and of course the coveted graduate-school-abroad-scholarships will most certainly go to the students who manage to learn English on top of everything else they have to do.

Jizzo could enter into a dialogue with the administration about the reasoning behind having an English requirement, but it would probably get him no where (but fired maybe).
Or he could fall back on the foriegn-language-learning-is-mental-exercise and therefore never a waste of time argument that still keeps latin in some schools.

Probably the most productive thing that would make his classes more enjoyable for him and his students is to try to capture their interests and use English to talk about themselves and their interests. Photos of scantily clad English speaking celebreties might help. OR maybe even focusing MORE on the exam and just make a contract with them to prepare them to get top scores on their exams.

[The_Hanged_Man]

Jizzo I feel your pain as a high school math teacher. My remedial classes in particular are filled students whose attitudes towards math range from apathy to antipathy. Plus, I agree that a lot of what I teach (stuff like the quadratic formula and trig) will be of no particular use to them in the future so I can't blame them for lacking motivation.

The only advice I can give is to echo what previous posters have said. Make your lessons as engaging as possible. A lot of my lower level kids appreciated more hands on type projects and presentations to break up the monotony of lectures/worksheets.

Do you give them grades? While a lot of my students couldn't care less about math, most of them care about their GPA. You could make things more rigorous so that they would need to put in a decent effort to earn a good grade. Also, for some students, a phone call or e-mail home to their parents can do wonders. I've found that fear of parental wrath can be an excellent classroom motivator.