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sm
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: UK
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 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: What should I do? |
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I have passed the EDB's recruitment process but due to their admin delays shall we say I am still not in HK. I am now considering waiting until next year when more schools are appointing new staff and I'm hoping that my application should be one of the first sent out as I have passed the process already but I'm not sure if this is the right decision, so if anyone out there can advice me in anyway I would be very grateful.
Thanks in advance x |
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anninhk
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for your disappointment but your situation is not unique and others have had to wait for a similar length of time. NETs seem to be recruited at all times of the year and many come out after Christmas. You could keep putting pressure on the EDB and maybe something will happen. Waiting till next year might be an option but it wouldn't guarantee that your name would be at the top of the list. I would expect that you would be competing with far more people than at present.
It's up to you really and how much you want the job. |
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crito
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: |
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I am in the same boat sm. It has been over three months since I was accepted. I have even faxed all the available schools. I have a few questions for the experienced and helpfull members of the board.
I am thinking if I don't get a EDB position by January I will seek employment elsewhere in Hong Kong. Then when I do get a EDB job offer (see still an optimist..the EDB has not beaten it out of me yet)I will just switch. Is this possible in terms of the work visa and such?
Second question is, I have been emailing Faye Chan quite often. However I would like to email Phoebe Mok but I am afraid to go over anyone's head. Should I? I appreciate any FB. Thanks |
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sm
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: |
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crito,
I have also phoned and spoke with both Fay and Phoebe but never get my questions answered due to language barriers.
I was offered a school contract but declined as I cant see how a school can offer me a contract when they haven't asked me any questions related to my qualifications and experiences, I didnt even have a telephone interview, all they asked was for me to forward a photo, so you can see why I declined!
I am also considering going over in Jan but I have a family to consider so its difficult. |
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sm
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| I am worried that if I start during the academic year it will take me longer to settle in, as where if I start in Aug I will also be starting with new pupils so should be easier to build a good student/teacher relationship. |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I'm waiting too. Long wait isn't it? I still wonder when they might tell me what kind of salary I'd get. I did the application, they said yes, and they're just checking the references, and then they'll contact the schools, and then the schools'll contact me, etc. and then they might tell me the salary.
I'm quite curious. Can anyone tell me what point/salary I could get for SNET with a CELTA (and YL add on), DELTA, PGCE and 10 years experience? Nonone in the EDB wants to tell me, boo hoo. |
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11:59
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 632
Location: Hong Kong: The 'Pearl of the Orient'
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Oxi, the reason no one wants to quote a salary is most likely twofold. First, no one here will ever, ever put themselves on the line, as it were. 'Blamelessness' (if there is such a word) is a central tenet of their 'culture' and they have the practice of passing the buck down to an art form. If a one Mr. or Mrs. Chan/Cheung/Leung/Yeung/Lam/Mok (there are only six extant surnames in Hong Kong) was to quote a salary and then your salary when finalised was lower than originally stated then you would have both cause for complaint and someone to complain about/direct your complaint at. To avoid such a state of affairs they prefer to keep things nebulous and up in the air. That way, when things go wrong (as things often do in the Third World), no one person can be pinned down to take the blame. Everyone benefits from this peculiar modus operandi. The analogy I would employ is that of Central and South American states. Few if any have extradition treaties with their neighbours despite the fact that most if not all of such states would often like to be able to get fugitives and former corrupt politicians back from one of their neighbouring countries. So why don't they all just agree on binding bi-directional extradition treaties? Well, the answer is simple: they � the present Powers that Be and policy makers � know full well that they themselves may have to become fugitives from their home state at some point in the future and certainly never want to be brought back to stand trial in some kangaroo court and then be summarily executed.
The second element to their being taciturn as regards your position on the master pay scale is simply that 'experience' is only 'EMB/EDB experience' if it is post-qualification. Nothing before being qualified counts one iota towards your pay. Also, the EMB/EDB (old wine, new bottles) only count certain types and kinds of 'experience' as 'experience'. Institutions have to be recognised, certain countries do not count, (I think) experience has to be gleaned from a full-time contract, and 'experience' after 4pm is not 'EMB/EDB-recognised experience'. I know of one chap who taught self-financed postgraduate evening courses at a university in Korea for many years (which by necessity must be conducted after normal working hours) but the EMB/EDB did not count this as experience as "the classes began at 6.30pm", quote/unquote. |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Fair enough. I understand no-one would like to get the blame if numbers need adjusted. It looks like I'll just have to wait... though the idea that I might only get about 17000 + accommodation allowance if they don't like my experience is depressing. |
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sm
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 36
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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oxi,
I was only told my salary once I received the contract which I declined and even at this point my references were not checked. The EDB told me before my file was sent out to schools that my references were being checked but even to date my references still have not been checked. I only know this because I asked one of my referees to tell me when they were contacted but this never happened.
Could the problem be that you are over qualified and that schools dont want to pay the max? or was your application delayed for one reason or another?
I am still very keen on making the move but I am also VERY disappointed with the EDB, as I was hoping to be in HK by mid Aug and yet its now nearly the end of Oct!!!!! I can see why people give up. |
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11:59
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 632
Location: Hong Kong: The 'Pearl of the Orient'
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| sm wrote: |
| Could the problem be that you are over qualified and that schools dont want to pay the max? or was your application delayed for one reason or another? |
It is not the school that pays. Rather, schools receive NET funding (to the very cent) from the EMB/EDB, who themselves get the funds from another government department. Schools themselves couldn't give a flying fig how much you earn, no matter whether it is $30,000 or $80,000. |
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Jenice
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| I'm the SET of my school and we are looking for a NET. You can send me your cv through an e-mail if you're interested in applying the job. |
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crito
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| I was offered a school contract but declined as I cant see how a school can offer me a contract when they haven't asked me any questions related to my qualifications and experiences, I didnt even have a telephone interview, all they asked was for me to forward a photo, so you can see why I declined! |
That is really sad. At least in Korea they try to pretend that they care about your quals and not about your pic. Good for you sm for turning that position down. |
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11:59
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 632
Location: Hong Kong: The 'Pearl of the Orient'
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| crito wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I was offered a school contract but declined as I cant see how a school can offer me a contract when they haven't asked me any questions related to my qualifications and experiences, I didnt even have a telephone interview, all they asked was for me to forward a photo, so you can see why I declined! |
That is really sad. At least in Korea they try to pretend that they care about your quals and not about your pic. Good for you sm for turning that position down. |
It might well be sad, and it might not be ideal, and such attitudes certainly do not seem to lie well with the image of a modern, dynamic, multi-ethnic, international city. But, if I were you I would start to get used to such attitudes, for they are somewhat prevalent in HK, even (indeed, arguably especially) among the (so-called) 'educated' sector(s) of society. The reasons for this, it seems to me, are quite clear. First, we have to draw a distinction between the facilities of the SAR of HK and the populace, that is, its 'indigenous' (read, non-ex-pat) inhabitants, viz., the locals (or, as I prefer to term them, the natives). For whereas the former are quite obviously First World, advanced, and modern (the underground train system � the MTR � is equal to that of Tokyo, for example) the latter are distinctly Third World in their outlook/world view and outward behaviour (Filipinos, Indonesians, Indians, and Mainlanders all share the somewhat dubious honour of being openly detested by the HK Chinese). Second, contrary to popular opinion, HK is not an international city. Indeed, it is overwhelmingly homogenous, with some 95% of the city's residents being Chinese. It is true that the remaining 5% are certainly a mixed bunch (with many races and nationalities represented) but it is at the end of the day a mere 5% of the total population, and of that slim percentage of non-Chinese residents, some 40% (i.e., nearly half of the non-Chinese population) are Filipino domestic helpers. One thing that has always puzzled me is why � and how � HK ever secured a reputation for being international. My guess is that an illusion if created by high-profile foreigners and/or the plethora of international firms with offices here. In short, do not come to HK expecting a forward-thinking, US- or European-style metropolis; assume it is distinctly Chinese, inward-looking, racist, and, facilities aside, backward.
Now, I won't in any way attempt to defend the institution's desire for a photograph. I can understand it, but will not try to defend it here. Suffice it to say that a large element of the underlying philosophy of the NET scheme is to get the students interacting in a foreign language with foreigners, and not 'just' with Chinese-race people who happen to speak English (as they can do that with many of their local teachers anyway). Nevertheless, I will say that I would not be too overly surprised by their willingness to offer you a contract without asking you any questions related to your qualifications and experience (note that 'experience' is singular when used in relation to previous positions held; 'experiences' in this context is a classic example of HK Chinglish). After all, they will trust the EMB/EDB to have done that already on their behalf with all the resources they have at hand. Indeed, from the point of view of the school, that is the whole point of the EMB/EDB element of the equation: to interview, assess, check out, and then refer/recommend suitable candidates.
Also, although you may have passed the EMB/EDB segment of the recruitment process, the school may be worried that you are too un-teacher-like in appearance, at least as regards the image they expect/demand for their school. HK is something of a conservative society, to say the least, and indeed, many prevailing attitudes here are reminiscent of Victorian England. It is far from uncommon for example to see girls having the hemlines of their skirts, dresses, and smocks measured at the school gates. At some schools (usually the ones run by nuns), girls are not even permitted to have ankles showing. Some institutions are especially Saudi-like in this regard. Very few if any schools allow students to wear any make-up, and hair is not allowed to touch, let alone go below, the shoulders. Hair colour is not allowed to be modified in any way and this also often applies to the teachers, too. Quite often hair gel is banned as well. Jewellery is outlawed for students and is often limited to a single engagement or wedding ring for the teachers.
The schools are ridiculously conservative because the society in which they operate is as well. To cite but one example, a short while ago the (international version of the) magazine Vogue had the word 'sex' on its front cover and newsagents in HK actually had to turn display copies upside down! Such prudish and outdated attitudes are reflected in ideas as to what constitutes a responsible teacher. For example, I know of one NET who left the scheme in disgust after he was reprimanded by his principle for the crime of both being single and being seen with a female at the weekend (male teachers in HK do not apparently have girlfriends or friends who happen to be female: they are either married or are only ever seen alone). A student's mother had spotted him with a girl (who was well above school leaving age � that was not the nature of the complaint) and brought this to the attention of the principal as she deemed it "inappropriate conduct unbecoming of [her] daughter's teacher". To cite another example, I know of one female teacher who got into trouble for being seen smoking in public (whilst out shopping in TST). Now if this was right outside the school gates during school hours or even after last class I could understand, after all, such behaviour might also be considered inappropriate and irresponsible in the US or the UK, but this was a Saturday morning and thus was her free time (and it was many, many miles away from her school). In sum, teachers here are assumed to be outstanding and upstanding members of the community, are teetotallers, Christian (of the Creationist, Texan, bible-bashing, Puritan variety), do not smoke (perish the thought), and are celibate to boot (and in fact do not even so much as have friends of the opposite sex).
To cite another example of such attitudes and ideas as to what constitutes a responsible teacher, I also met one chap who got into some not inconsiderable trouble for having a tattoo, which became apparent to all and sundry upon his making good on his promise to volunteer to compete in the school's swimming gala (the event for teachers typically conducted at the end). Now, if it was a full, Yakuza-style bodysuit with dragons, Samurai swords and naked women then again, I might be able to understand the school's point, but this was an army regimental tattoo from some twenty years previously, was the size of a rosebud, and was located on his left shoulder (he had previously been a commissioned officer in the armed forces and so was not some sort of thug). This chap's naively allowing the ridiculously conservative HK teachers and parents to see he had a tattoo resulted in his receiving a written warning and notice that he would not be needed again the next term.
Other, similar examples are abound in HK. One quite famous chap (who founded or co-founded) a support group/union for NETs was summarily dismissed from his post by the principal of his school because he appeared in a film in which some females were scantily clad. His picture was on a website with some of these female actors and that alone was enough to result in his being dismissed (it was referred to as pornographic despite the fact that you could not see anything you would not see at a public swimming pool). Now, he took the school to court � and was awarded some damages (about a year's salary he once told me in a pub in Sai Kung where he was doing a gig one night) � but the fact remains that he was able to be dismissed on such ridiculous grounds and he had to invest some time and money in bringing the case to court.
So, in short, do not be too surprised if schools request a photograph. Coming to HK is in many ways similar to travelling into the future, but in many other ways is akin to travelling back in time, or going to a repressive Islamic state such as the KSA. |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Jenice, would like to email you, but you haven't put your email up |
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anninhk
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not doubting Jenice but if you do send your details and are accepted please make sure that you are being employed on the Government NET scheme which guarantees you all the benefits of being a NET ie housing allowance and other benefits. Some schools appoint their own NETs but these NETs are not entitled to those benefits. |
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