Job Discussion Forums

ohman · Joined: 09 Sep 2003 Posts: 239 Location: B' Um Fouk, Egypt

So what do they call a popular place in Mecca?

johnslat · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:09 pm Post subject: Makkah is a mecca for pilgrims

Dear ohman,
Hmm, guess you're unaware of the " spelling change ". " Mecca " is now " Makkah " in the Kingdom. I suspect they did that because of too many instances of the previous spelling's being " abused ", as in " Las Vegas is a mecca for gamblers ". So, I suppose we could answer your question by saying that in Makkah, a popular place could be called a ( generic ) mecca.
Regards,
John

ohman · Joined: 09 Sep 2003 Posts: 239 Location: B' Um Fouk, Egypt

If Paul McCartney reverts to Islam, then Makkah would be a mecca for Macka.

God I'm bored.

johnslat · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:58 pm Post subject: Infectious

Dear ohman,
" God I'm bored. "
Tsk, tsk - that's still no excuse for inflicting it on the rest of us.
Regards,
John

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

Someone should put up a 'MeccaDonalds' in Makkah. I'm sure that'd go over well.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

It was changed from "Mecca" to "Makkah" because the religious took exception to the use of "Mecca" as a trade name for a chain of Bingo Halls in the United Kingdom. ( MECCA BINGO)

Outside Saudi Arabia everyone else seems to continue using "Mecca" as the spelling.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

I could be wrong here, but isn't the 'Mecca' spelling just another mis- transliteration from the past. There is still a need for a standardized way to transliterate to avoid having so many ways to spell the same word and using something closer to the sounds makes sense. There is no letter 'c' in the Arabic alphabet, so Makkah makes much more sense.

I have noticed for the last few years that every new map seems to have new spellings of all the cities in the Arabic speaking countries - to make them closer to the actual pronunciation - what a concept!! Like Dimashq and changes like El Qahira, Kuwayt and Dubayy (presumably to overcome the lack of the letter 'i' in Arabic) and sometimes added errors like Abu Zaby - which would only be correct to an Egyptian Arabic speaker - as it should have stayed 'dh' to symbolize the soft th sound.

But likely the Makkah change is being pushed to avoid the already mentioned general usage of mecca in English. If you notice, the spelling 'Moslem' is quickly being replaced with the more accurate 'Muslim.' And to me, to insist on keeping 'mecca' just because it was likely a spelling choice made by someone who didn't speak Arabic a couple hundred years ago smacks a bit of cultural imperialism, doesn't it? (present company excluded, of course---) Smile

VS

johnslat

Dear veiledsentiments,
I do believe you're mistaken this time - when I first got to the Kingdom in 1980, all the ( English ) signs spelled the name of the city " Mecca ". The change ( for whatever reason(s) - a bingo parlour or just its generic and often " irreligious " usage in the West ) took place sometime in the early 80s, as I recall.
Regards,
John

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

There are several was of transliterating from Arabic into the Latin alphabet.

Unfortunately no one can agree on one and stick to it.

MacMahon · Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 39

La shek, haa'the kalaam mas'boot ow sahih Skott...

MacMahon · Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 39

La shek, haa'the kalaam mas'boot ow sahih Skott...

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Hey JohnS,

I think we're both right - you're talking about within the kingdom and I was talking about outside. Now the big question is what happens if the Bingo Parlor decides to 'correct' the spelling of its name. Smile

And, Scot47 -- it would certainly be nice if the linguists of both languages could get together and work it out for once. My favorite example of this confusion was in Oman. SQU is in an area called Al-Khod or Al-Khodh or Al-Khud or Al-Khoud or Al-Khoudh and on and on - depending on what direction you drove in on - no two signs had the same English spelling.

VS

johnslat · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:31 pm Post subject: See Makkah and die

Well, howsoever you may spell it, Makkah certainly seems to be a mecca for terrorists these days, doesn't it?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031106/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_militants

Regards,
John

Truth Hurts · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 115 Location: Truthville

Well, I wonder what this makes us:

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Nov/11062003/nation_w/nation_w.asp

johnslat · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:19 pm Post subject: Huh?

Dear Truth Hurts,
I would suppose, according to what I can infer from your message, that your desired answer is -
Why, it makes us ( here in the "West" ) all homicidal maniacs.
But you seem to have leaped to the incorrect conclusion that my posting meant to imply that all of "them" (i.e. Saudis, Arabs, Muslims) are terrorists. If so, you're way off base in your "interpretation". One part of the article I found interesting was this:
" The legitimacy of Saudi rulers rests partly on their custodianship of Mecca, which is off-limits to non-Muslims. A strike on Mecca could be seen as a strike on the regime."
Since I've returned to the States, Ive been surprised by the number of well-educated, intelligent people who have no idea that the Royal Family is, in my opinion, very likely at the top of Osama's hit list. And the fact that so many - not just the one mentioned in the article - terrorist cells have been uncovered in Makkah would, to my mind, seem to support this notion of mine.
Regards,
John