Job Discussion Forums

[Mateusz]

I was hoping someone could clear this up for me.

I recently interviewed for a job at a language school in Ukraine. When I asked whether I needed to apply for a visa, the owner said that I didn't need a visa 'as I would be working for a company.'

I know that Ukraine is visa free for UK tourists visiting for up to 90 days, but it seems odd that there are no restrictions at all on people coming to work there.

Anyway I decided to check this out with the Ukrainian embassy in London. According to them I would need to apply for a visa if I was planning on working in Ukraine.

What does anyone else think? I have got the wong of the stick?

[BELS]

Even in Moscow, while in Moscow many schools will take you on illegally, how many teachers have one school as the the inviter and get extra work from another school with no questions asked. You are paid in cash of course.

Why not try a reputable school in Ukraine, I believe there is an International house school and just check how they would employ you. Their policy is probably correct.

[canucktechie]

There are a lot of EFL teachers in Ukraine who don't have visas at all. They just leave the country every 90 days and come back.

Of course you can apply for a business visa (no invite necessary) before you go and save yourself the trips for the duration of your visa.

I'm sure there is an "official" way to do things and perhaps if you work for IH or another top-drawer school they might do it that way, but rest assured that for most teachers in Ukraine it's just "do your own thing".

[BELS]

[jonpernick]

On September 6th, on the front page of the Kyiv post it was reported that there was a change to entry regulations for foreigners from countries where there was no visa needed for entry.

the report stated that currently a foreigner can stay within Ukraine for up to 90 days within a 180 day period. Before, the foreigner could simply cross the border and then return for another 90 days. Now, a foreigner would not be able to return.

authorities are unsure of how to enforce the change, but people should be aware that it exists.

Entry regulations may be handled differently at each border crossing. Be cautious. I have heard come horror stories.

[ecocks]

The law did definitely change but no one knows quite whether it's ever going to be consistently enforced. There are a couple of stories about people being refused re-entry and slightly increasing difficulties with the lazy folks who over-stay their 90 day periods. Most people here feel it isn't worth the risk and are putting pressure on their schools to provide assistance with obtaining a business visa.

The big problem is that many EFL teachers work for more than one school plus have their own private students to make ends meet. A school that provides you documentation has to begin paying you taxes on at least a portion of your pay and many are trying to challenge your ability to work for other competitor organizations or have your own students. This despite their inability to provide you full-time work at a living wage. It is probably going to be good for the market, should clean us up a bit. Price you pay for a culture, government and economy in transition.

[Nexus]

Can someone in Ukraine please clarify the situation regarding visas there (as much as possible ) :

Previously, people stayed for 90 days then did a border run and came back?

Now, they're saying that if you stay for 90 days, you have to be out of the country for the next 90 days (as in Russia)?

What provision is made by schools / employers there for getting a legit work permit?

Thanks in advance!

[ecocks]

Read what I said above. What part don't you understand?

[ecocks]

Everyone keeps asking for the "latest" and there is simply nothing new since early August. The law went into effect in late July (as mentioned earlier). There are no new developments other than everyone asking over and over again about it.

Article from Friday Kyiv Post:

New visa rules confuse expats
by Zenon Zawada, Kyiv Post Editor
Nov 07 2007, 23:04

For the past two years, Annamarie has lived and taught English in a Cherkassy university on a volunteer basis, all the while without a visa.

Relaxed restrictions, decreed by President Viktor Yushchenko in July 2005, required that she merely cross the border and re-enter Ukraine every 90 days, which she did five times through Poland.

Today, she�s concerned with a July Cabinet of Ministers order, which restricts the term visitors from Western nations can remain in Ukraine visa-free to 90 days within a 180-day period, could derail her classes.

�This is my gift to Ukraine,� said Annamarie, 68, who has taught more than 200 students.

�I am giving my help to anybody who wants to learn 21st-century English. My students are excited to learn, and this new rule threatens what I�m doing.�

In the last several weeks, expatriates living extendedly in Ukraine have begun scrambling to apply for visas they didn�t need earlier, as the 90th day since their last border crossing began to approach.

In Annamarie�s case, her 90-day period will expire on Dec. 12. She hasn�t yet decided whether she will return to the US or apply for a visa and try to stay in Ukraine.

Others are traveling to cities in neighboring countries, such as Krakow, Poland and Prague, Czech Republic, because expatriates can only obtain visas outside Ukraine�s borders.

Lack of enforcement

In the months since the controversial July decree, many expatriates haven�t been sure whether they should bother obtaining the visas, partly because they�ve heard conflicting reports on whether the State Border Service of Ukraine is even enforcing the new restrictions.

�There is a lot of contradictory information regarding the law, and people have different perceptions,� said Canadian Phillip McGinn, 26.

�Some people have been easily able to cross the border even though they�ve been here for 90 days, while others have been turned away.�

It remains unclear whether the decree is being actively enforced by the State Border Service, which did not respond to inquiries by the Post.

McGinn said his English-teaching colleagues crossed the Moldovan border in recent weeks and re-entered Ukraine without any hassles from guards.

�No one mentioned to them they had only five days left in the country, and they were given another 90-day stamp,� he said.

Part of the confusion also stems from conflicting information from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

When examining his options, expatriate Jerry Schoeberlein, 46, considered applying for a business visa at the Ukrainian Consulate in Chicago, where he planned to be for the holidays.

The Chicago Ukrainian Consulate�s website stated the 180-day restriction was part of the president�s July 2005 decree, leading him to believe that the Border Service hasn�t been enforcing the rule for two years.

However, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs told the Post that the information on its Chicago Consulate website is erroneous.

The July 1, 2005 decree allowed visa-free visits to Ukraine for 90 days, without any 180-day restriction.

Expatriates said they are puzzled why the Ukrainian government would suddenly place harsher restrictions on visitors from wealthy countries, after relaxing the rule for two years.

McGinn speculated the Russian-leaning government led by Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych wants to restrict the Western presence in Ukraine, since it was his government that passed the July 11 decree.

However, Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Andriy Deschytsia said the new restrictions aren�t related to domestic politics, though he declined to state which government agency initiated the 180-day rule.

The new measures, which he described as a �concretization,� are merely the Ukrainian government�s decision to bring its visa policies in line with those imposed on Ukrainian citizens by the nations of North America, Europe and Japan.

While Westerners can still enter Ukraine for 90 days visa-free, Ukrainian citizens can�t enter any Western countries without a visa, Deschytsia said.

The president�s July 2005 decree was a �gesture of good will, for which Ukraine received nothing in return� from other governments, Deschytsia said on Nov. 6.

�This is a step by the Ukrainian government toward applying those rules that Western countries apply to Ukrainians,� he said.

If Westerners are dissatisfied with the new restrictions, �then please lobby your governments to simplify visa regimes for Ukrainian citizens visiting your countries,� he advised.

Ukraine less attractive

To apply for and obtain student, business or tourist visas, expatriates must travel to foreign consulates or embassies. Poland and the Czech Republic have emerged as popular options. The TryUkraine.com website specifically recommended Krakow.

�The workers in the Krakow, Poland consulate are cooperative and will have the visa done within a few hours if you visit them in person,� the website reported.

�There are almost never lines, but be the first to be waiting at the door in the morning.�

Some expatriates reported non-responsiveness from consulates for Internet requests, and Deschytsia acknowledged that applying for a visa via the Internet won�t go very far.

�If you present your visa application supported by all the necessary documents to obtain a visa, then our consulates can�t deny a visa,� he said.

�If you don�t receive a visa, or consulate staff doesn�t respond to questions, then direct your complaints to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs� call center.� The center�s number in Kyiv is 238-1550.

McGinn said he plans to visit the Krakow Consulate in mid-November and learned that processing a visa application should take no longer than a single business day.

The added hassle of obtaining a visa will make Ukraine a less attractive option for Westerners wishing to teach English abroad, or engage in charity work for example, expatriates say.

But forcing visitors, such as English-language teachers, to get business visas will also make it difficult to work in Ukraine without official employment papers. The measure could force many foreigners working in Ukraine to pay taxes in the country, as they will now need to get business visas, which require proof of employment.

�It�s certainly something that would cause someone considering staying here for an extended period to go elsewhere instead of getting a visa,� McGinn said.

Though Annamarie could apply for a visa, she hasn�t decided whether it�s worth the effort to travel to an overseas consulate.

Furthermore, Cherkassy State Technological University staff informed her they don�t sponsor visas for visiting teachers. Her next semester was slated to begin next February.

�I�m not here to abase anybody or cause trouble,� Annamarie said. �I�m here to help, so why not make it easy for me? Look at me as an asset to this country.�

*******************

Hope this helps.

[canucktechie]

[Nexus]

Just these bits..

[BELS]

[Nexus]

Sure, you can buy an invitation for a biz visa no problem. I've also been told (by an agency) that they can sell you a work permit. They were pretty expensive though.

You can buy pretty much anything here, if you've got the money.

[BELS]

[Nexus]

Times are changing, yes. For the moment, it seems better to sign up with a decent employer who will cover you for a legitimate work (teacher's) visa. It's the sad truth, but the days of working totally freelance on a ME business visa seem to be coming to an end.

Some seem to be doing the paperwork for less than full-time contract hours so that will give you more available time to earn money from private work. Seems simple, go for the one who you trust to do you all the legit papers for the least contract teaching hours and a decent rate.