Job Discussion Forums

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

"How is the job market overseas?"

"Overseas" ? Where is that ? Is it near "Abroad" ?

You really need a slightly more sophisticated world view than the dichotomy of MY COUNTRY V. EVERYWHERE ELSE

Finish your degree, get a teaching certificate and then thinka bout hwre you want to go. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Countries recruit people with certification and experience.

And what, pray tell, is a "telf" ? Do you mean a Certificate or Diploma in TEFL ?

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

Hey Bosnian

You know, most English teachers are actually really nice... Smile

As for the TEFL market in the Middle East, I have a feeling you'll need more than a first degree and a CELTA. They like MAs over there, don't they?

R · Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 277 Location: United Kingdom

I messed that one up. The idea was to split the discussion of posters' styles from the discussion of Bosnian's actual question. It would perhaps have been helpful if I had managed to leave Bosnian's question on the right thread. So here it is again:

Bosnian said:

Hi all,

I'm currently attending an University in Canada and I'm going toward a BA in (Major) English (Minor in History). Can you guys tell me what I sould do to get a job teaching overseas, preferably anywhere in Middle East or North Africa. Do I need a Telf or can I just use my degree. I still have a few years before I'm done school. I also speak and write French, Bosnian and some limited Arabic.

How is the job market overseas?

For the jobs that are advertised on this website, what is the rejection rate. If it is very high what are the other options when looking for employment?

How hard is it to get into Saudi or UAE?

I have many other questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Javid

johnslat · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:05 pm Post subject: Some answers

Dear Bosnian,
Well, let's take your question, one by one:

1. How is the job market overseas?

1. Scot47's right about this one; it's really much too general a question.

2. For the jobs that are advertised on this website, what is the rejection rate. If it is very high what are the other options when looking for employment?

2. For the first part - posters could answer only on individual experience of rejection ( if they have had any ); I don't think there's any way anyone could give you an overall statistic. For the second part, well, there's the TESOL quarterly and lots of other web sites:

http://www.jobcanada.org/teachers.html

http://www.joyjobs.com/

http://asiafacts.kingston.net/

http://www.linguistic-funland.com/tesljob.html

http://www.escapeartist.com/jobs34/jobs34.htm

http://www.tesol.org/pubs/magz/tq.html

to list just a few. A Yahoo search turned up 17,600 hits

3. How hard is it to get into Saudi or UAE?

3. Again, a little too general. How old are you? What gender? How much are you looking for in the salary department? A BA all by itself would not be so good for getting any kind of DECENT job in the Gulf. Hope some of this helps.
Regards,
John

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

3. And to add something to John's caveat about #3, some employers here in Saudi Arabia might be wary of taking on a Francophone Bosnian with a Muslim name. Is your first language English ? I don't care but a potential employer might.

J-Pop · Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 215 Location: USA

lajzar · Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 647 Location: Saitama-ken, Japan

Hey Jpop, calm down. It doesnt look to me like he was questioning teh truith of that guy being a Francophone Bosnian. Rather, he was questioning how likely it is that a prospective employer would take such a person on as an English teacher. Some places seem to be really finickety about their English teachers being native speakers for some reason Confused

johnslat · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:33 pm Post subject: You can't win

Dear scot47,
Jeez, Louise - see what happens when you let that " kinder, gentler scot47 " make a rare appearance. You get accused of being an " ignorant racist ". Boy, you certainly can't please everyone ( anyone? ), can you?
Dear J-Pop,
Regarding scot47's postings, I can speak with personal knowledge only about his ones on Saudi Arabia ( having spent 19 years there myself ). Those posts, in my opinion, are replete with excellent info about the country, the job situations there and the advantages/disadvantages of living and working in the Kingdom. On matters regarding Saudi Arabia, I'd say scot47 is THE authority on this board.
Regards,
John

J-Pop · Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 215 Location: USA

J-Pop · Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 215 Location: USA

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I tell it the way it is. Employers in Saudi Arabia are often reluctant to hire people who they THINK are not native speakers.

I did not say that was right. I did not say that was good. Read the posts before you have your knee-jerk reaction to what you perceive as racism.

dyak · Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 630

cheryl · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Japan

lol "knee jerk reaction", gotta keep that one for next time. Wink

MindTraveller · Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 89 Location: Oman

What level do you want to teach at? With just a BA you are very, very limited in your options. Korea and China will take anyone, but they will treat you badly.

In the Middle East, you need at least (usually) a Masters. However - the Higher Colleges of Technology sytem in the UAE (United Arab Emirates) takes people with BAs. (I don't know the all requirements, but you can check it out on their website, which is easy to find under the name.)

You can probably get jobs in the Gulf (that's what we here call the Middle East) at language schools, but the pay will be poor, and the conditions may be horrid.

If you just want to 'try it' - get a job in Taiwan or Japan (teaching kids) if you can. Suggesting Korea to you would be like sending you to EFL Marine hell - I mean, you could do it, but you might not survive the horrors mentally or financially.

The suggestion to do volunteer work at home where you are now is the best suggestion. That gives you a taste of what to expect and some training.

Then there's always the Peace Corps route - 2 years, with some training (sometimes) and it looks wonderful on your resume. Or, if you can't get into the USA Peace Corps, the British have VSO, which advertises on some of the links given previously. It's the same thing, minimum pay, but great experiences, I think. (Just talked to one person in VSO, but she loved it and had been working with them for 15 years.)

There's a school in Bali that advertises for 'volunteer teachers'. DON'T DO THAT. China was into that before too, ten years ago or so. They offered me a contract in which I had to pay my own airfare, but with the salary they were offering, there was no way I could buy my air-fare out!.

The world is a big place. Experience, training, and skills count. When I started EFL in 1984, people like yourself (and me too) had more opportunities. A British co-worker said that soon the Americans (and Canadians too now) would be flooding the EFL market and ruin it for the British. That did happen. Plus now employers want more, specific training backgrounds. You get what you pay for. If you have no experience, no training, no teaching certificate, you'll be ripe to be abused.

Take care, do lots of research and learn about teaching first hand by doing it. If you can't find a volunteer job, make one for yourself by making a program, a syllabus and taking it to a local school and offering it as a 'free activity' for after school. Or do something with the local library.

Good luck!