Job Discussion Forums

[FM3]

I'll try to make this a s short as I can.

For several years, I have thought about teaching in Ukraine. I've been there many times, my Russian is pretty good, I can read some Ukrainian. I'm quite fascinated by the country.

But although I constantly thought about it, lack of knowledge always restrained me.

Now, I may have to make a move, so to speak. Eventually I will loose not my job but my entire career due to outsourcing. Even my education will be useless in the USA, as it is directly related to the field.

So perhaps this idle dreaming of teaching, a very fascinating thing for me, may be something I will need to seriously consider. There at least would be little culture shock, as I have been there many times, staying apartments, not really doing the "tourist" thing too much. Speaking the language goes a long way towards this.

But reading through the boards here leaves me feeling that I almost know less than I knew when I started!

With TEFL certification and a degree in an unrelated field, is it a practical idea to teach in Ukraine?

Of course with Russian languages skills, Russia itself is a possibility. But Russia seems like maze of confusion by comparison. I've been to Moscow, and I'm not so sure it's the place for me...too big and insane, like NYC, for my taste.

Overall, I'd probably be more comfortable in Ukraine...if it's a real possibility.

I'd like to learn as much I can, while I still have time. Eventually, my career in the USA will gone, and then I'll be under the gun to do something. I hope to be prepared!

Thanks!

[canucktechie]

The job market in Ukraine stinks. Many teachers are not there to make a living, but have Ukrainian wives (or are looking for one), or are involved with churches, cultural organizations, etc. There are simply too many people looking for work and not enough demand from people with money.

There are a few decent employers (IH Kiev and Kharkov, London School come to mind) and more that aren't.

If you can line up a decent job ahead of time by all means go, it's generally a pleasant place to live.

[FM3]

Thanks for the feedback canuck!

Hmmm, it figures that I become entranced with a place like this:)

I had pretty much gathered it wasn't a "get rich quick" place at all, but in your experience is it more than simply "survivable"?

Incidentally, I had said "reading through the boards here leaves me feeling that I almost know less than I knew when I started!"

As an example, I read the posts on the boards here and often notice a dire warning about a school (supported by some rather harrowing details), and then find a post from someone who is quite happy at the same school.

It's things such as that which cause me confusion and hesitation. Probably they're just expressing their honest experiences and feelings... but it's so difficult to determine who is closer to the truth.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

canuck hit the nail on the head. Good jobs are hard to find. If you are able to find a job at one of the places canuck's mentioned, you should have enough to live ok (you won't be a high-roller by any means, though). The country is getting more and more expensive. When I left there in 2003, I lived nicely on $400/month in L'viv. Now I think you'd need double that (in L'viv) to live the same lifestyle.
Good luck!

[FM3]

Been a while since I dropped by here......

I'm going to have to make a decision soon about all of this.

I see that one may earn certification in Kiev. It would seem like a good idea for me, since my first choice is to teach in Ukraine due to my fondness for the place. But perhaps it is not a good idea; I am just so inexperienced with the whole TEFL thing.

Really, I'm not opposed to Russia either.

The attraction for me is that I really love the Russian and Ukrainian languages, and the history and culture of these countries interests me also. In addition, I've spent time in these countries already, especially Ukraine. You know, living in apartments and not really doing the tourist thing, so speak.

So I am stuck on these countries.

[maccamlc]

Well, I will be doing the CELTA qualification at IH Kyiv in June, '08. If you decide to do this, let me know, can get in touch before the course starts

[ecocks]

Both of you may want to trade a few PM's or emails and see if you can start a network before you come here.

Getting here and finding work at the beginning of summer will require you to think through the budget issues. Few schools will be putting new folks to work in July and early August since many companies shut down their training programs for a month or two to allow vacations. Plan on getting up to speed in mid-September (remember you will have a 2 week to 1 month lag in paychecks), although you would do well to start arranging work and getting your thoughts together before coming in contingent upon completing a reputable training program.

Pay for full-time teachers is running around $1100-1500/month in Kyiv. Until you land a FT job at a decent school, most teachers start working part-time at 1-2 schools and then piece together a private client base. Private students pay more per hour but are subject to more cancellations and varying interest areas. A BIG factor that is getting more critical is the issue of visas and work permits. Apartments are dependent on your living standards and range from as low as $400 (out from center and older style buildings) up to $900 (newer, closer to center). 1 Room? 2 Rooms? Get a roomie? Rent only a room in someone�s apartment? All these affect your costs.

Personally, I would do my TEFL in Prague if you want to work in Eastern Europe. The major schools know that Prague has several reputable programs and it is a cheaper city to live in during your schooling. So you can begin applying in several countries as soon as you get accepted and see how the contacts go. In short, you keep your options open. If worst comes to worst, you can survive in Prague due to all the language schools there and all the ESL teachers advertising rooms and looking for roomies. Also the visa/work permit issue is getting worse in both Russia and Ukraine (check all the discussion going on about this topic) and it is better to know where you are going and try to avoid having to make a trip out after getting your job. Besides, it broadens your exposure to Europe and is a convenient starting point for your adventure into ESL. You will have time to travel around a bit before starting jobs in fall (probably). Prague is a well-situated location for train, bus and plane travel.

Hope this helps.

[maruss]

Not only are visa rules in Russia now more strict,but it seems that Moscow is becoming a worse place to live for everyone there,Russians included because not only are prices rising but the place is becoming chronically overcrowded as more and more people from the provinces go there chasing jobs etc.As a result the traffic is often at a standstill more and more often and the trains,metro and buses are getting more packed than ever before.....Although politics are hardly likely to be on your agenda,its also not a good idea to open your mouth if you don't like what's going on there,as yesterdays opposition demonstrators found out only too well!
Ukraine has its problems too of course,especially about finding jobs that pay well,as you can read from the postings on this site but if I had to choose between the two countries nowadays I would try for the second one any day.

[maruss]

Although its eastern europe, it's a whole world away from places like Russia and the Ukraine and the only reminder of communism there is the ghastly architecture in some of the Prague suburbs and industrial towns throughout the country.I would almost compare the Czech Republic nowadays to somewhere like Austria or Germany in many ways,rather than any country further east!

[FM3]

First, I must thank you all for the feedback!

I can't PM yet; too few posts as of now

I've seen some schools (and I recall a school in Prague) offering job placement assistance for people who complete the course. How true, or practical, is this?

Perhaps the real mystery for me, is what happens after I get certified? I can all too easily picture myself without work, no real experience, not really knowing what the Hell to do, and the clock ticking on finances and visa issues.

Is it really OK to send out CVs, stating CELTA certification, when one is not yet certified? To line up a job before even making a move? I think I read some advice about doing this somewhere in the forums. As usual, my head is spinning from all of this, trying to settle upon a concrete course of action. I can't shake the feeling that I'll be diving headlong into uncharted territory without a map, and inviting disaster.

And, what exactly does one do now about a visa? I'm really thinking of Ukraine here; it is truly the place I'd like to teach. Prague is intriguing but I love Ukraine and speak Russian.
For example, let's say I go to IH Kiev...get my certification...but then I have no visa, correct? So I either get lucky and find a job which handles the visa/work permit, or I'm forced to leave the country, unable to return for 3 months? Although, actually, I couldn't hold out for 3 months in the country without work anyway..I think that's the law, 90 days in country and then out for 90 days.

Or is it not such a big deal? Is it likely that I'll find FT position? It seems like there won't be much leeway if I don't land a FT quickly. Schools seem to hire in September, and maybe January; miss that window and it seems like you're in a bad spot.

I'm just trying to imagine what my situation would be after I finish the CELTA. If I could see a clear path, a course of action, I'd feel a lot better about all of this.

[ecocks]

Man, you are stressing over the wrong things.

No one said claim you are certified when you are not. When you decide where you are going, word your CV to indicate that you have committed to the class and when you expect to complete, then send it out. Recruiters can figure it out. A good cover letter explaining the timing, as well as selling yourself helps a lot in this situation.

One reason I suggest Prague is because of the visa issue (at least for Americans). You can get in there easily and go to a reputable school, get the training and skills, then find your job. It makes a good base for your job-hunting and provides you some transition experience into this area of the world. If you are lucky you might land a camp job to give you a little experience before starting your real job. The visa thing will work itself out, at least for Ukraine. Russia and Poland are apparently making some people return to their home countries to process work visas, Ukraine doesn't do that (yet). But we have repeatedly mentioned that things have changed in the last few months. From Ukraine, at worst, it is a short trip out after you get your first job. But maybe you will end up in Slovakia, Czech Rep. or...who knows where? Stay flexible; this area of the world is in transition. If you want predictable, you should probably stay where you are. If you are going to freak out at new styles of housing, strange foods and language challenges, you need to think this through some more.

Job placement (especially those saying guaranteed) for some of the schools means you work for them. This is often at reduced pay during your "internship" and probation period. Maybe this is fair due to lack of experience, maybe not. I went to school at TEFL Worldwide in Prague. They had big notebooks of job vacancies around the world. They get sent in by alumni, some from recruiters that have hired their grads before and some that they tracked down themselves. Naturally, you would expect better local contacts but sometimes the instructors have contacts so you never know. One school I work with has indicated they are considering sending someone over to Prague once or twice a year to interview candidates and build relationships with schools. This is cheaper than interviewing in London and gives more diversity in the candidates. I think it is a smart dea if they cary through but some schools don't have enough teacher recruiting to make this cost-effective.

Just settle down and do the research, look at what you find and make the best decision you can though.