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jonathanj
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Getting a Dependent Visa For My Wife |
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| Just wondering if anyone has any problems getting a dependent visa for their spouse. My wife is Chinese, but we both plan on moving to Japan in the new year. She is having a hard time getting a job secured (her being Chinese, going to Japan doesn't help) before leaving so she is gonna be a dependent on my working visa. Has anyone done this? A few jobs who wanted to hire me said it was ok to give me a visa, but not my wife. Why would that be? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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1. Employers often don't know the rules about immigration very well. This could be one problem.
2. Also, were the employers considering her as well as you for work at the same place?
3. Or were they just talking about dependent visas overall? See #1.
In my opinion, some Chinese might experience problems if they try to get a work visa by themselves with no other attachments (like foreign spouse), because of some suspicions about criminal acts (some Chinese students also come here on student visas, then bail out of the school to do other things, just to make money to send home). I don't see as this will be the case in your situation, but I'm not an immigration officer. |
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benshi
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Yrs; that's stupid. Any employer willing to hire you can easily do the paperwork to apply for the dependant visa as well. My company does that from time to time, and it isn't a big deal. |
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jonathanj
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
1. Employers often don't know the rules about immigration very well. This could be one problem.
2. Also, were the employers considering her as well as you for work at the same place?
3. Or were they just talking about dependent visas overall? See #1.
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It was just for a visa overall. She lived in Tokyo for seven years and is extremely excited to go back. We now live in Beijing (I miss Japan and don't like China very much). She is just a little bummed out that people wiling to give me a job are not willing to do the extra paperwork to let her come with me. Hopefully the employer I am talking to right now is a little "nicer". |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Your employer is not obligated to help your spouse get a dependent visa. Realize that right off.
Second, though, it is not something they even have to do. You sponsor her dependent visa. Your employer doesn't. So, if Japan permits Chinese to come as tourists, she can to that, and while she is here, she can apply with you to get a dependent visa. |
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jonathanj
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Your employer is not obligated to help your spouse get a dependent visa. Realize that right off.
Second, though, it is not something they even have to do. You sponsor her dependent visa. Your employer doesn't. So, if Japan permits Chinese to come as tourists, she can to that, and while she is here, she can apply with you to get a dependent visa. |
I thought I read on MOFA that my wife will need to get a dependent visa before arriving. At first, I just assumed that if I got a work visa, then we can both go to the Japanese embassy, and she could apply for a dependent visa based on my work visa. If this is not the case, then she will need documents from my employer saying that my wife is allowed to come with me. If she does get a tourist visa, would she not have to leave Japan to change her status to a dependent visa? Is there no way to do this before arriving?
EDIT: After reading MOFA again, it says the documents needed to get a Dependent visa is: proof of marriage, proof of job or income by the sponsor, and passport. Does this mean that once I get my COE, we can both go to the embassy together and she can apply for a dependent visa at the same time? I think I will have to get her to call the embassy and find out. I would do it myself but I don't speak Chinese or Japanese. |
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ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Getting a Dependent Visa For My Wife |
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| jonathanj wrote: |
| A few jobs who wanted to hire me said it was ok to give me a visa, but not my wife. Why would that be? |
As glenski has already said, one possible explanation is employers simply not knowing the immigration rules. However, it also sometimes happens that employers DO know the immigration rules, but lie about them so as to influence the possible actions of their foreign employee in some way; like the employer telling you that you'll lose your visa if you quit. Not true at all, and clearly just said to make people think twice about quitting mid contract.
Jonathan, did the employers you refer to above know that your wife was Chinese? If they did, that might be another possible reason for their response, I'm afraid, with there being a pretty strong undercurrent of anti-China hysteria in Japan at the moment. Maybe hysteria is too strong a word, but I certainly don't think there's much considered thought behind a lot of it. There's so much stuff in the Japanese media these days, focussing on just about any negative aspect of China they can dig up. I've also had a lot of students, who've not held back at all in class from expressing very strong anti-Chinese sentiments.
Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not at all suggesting that you shouldn't come to Japan. There's as close as you get to zero chance that these negative sentiments towards China would put either you or your wife in any kind of danger. Ignorance can indeed be bliss at times, and I'm sure much of this would pass you by if you don't speak Japanese. I also suspect that the media will focus a bit more on other targets once the Beijing Olympics (probably the reason for it all) are out the way.
Back to the specific point of your visa application - I think your edit above is correct. Your employer needs to offer you the job for you to get your COE, but the employer has nothing directly to do with the dependent visa application.
The only way I could see your potential employer having anything to do with your wife at all would be if you were living in employer provided accommodation. Some employers get a bit fussy about other people living there - being a married couple should pose the fewest problems in that situation, but I have heard of people being told, "no, the apartment is for you only, period!"
Anyway, good luck! |
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jonathanj
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Getting a Dependent Visa For My Wife |
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| ironopolis wrote: |
Jonathan, did the employers you refer to above know that your wife was Chinese? If they did, that might be another possible reason for their response, I'm afraid, with there being a pretty strong undercurrent of anti-China hysteria in Japan at the moment. Maybe hysteria is too strong a word, but I certainly don't think there's much considered thought behind a lot of it. There's so much stuff in the Japanese media these days, focussing on just about any negative aspect of China they can dig up. I've also had a lot of students, who've not held back at all in class from expressing very strong anti-Chinese sentiments.
Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not at all suggesting that you shouldn't come to Japan. There's as close as you get to zero chance that these negative sentiments towards China would put either you or your wife in any kind of danger. Ignorance can indeed be bliss at times, and I'm sure much of this would pass you by if you don't speak Japanese. I also suspect that the media will focus a bit more on other targets once the Beijing Olympics (probably the reason for it all) are out the way.
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I have lived in Japan before, and so has my wife. We met each other in Tokyo. Some students have snickered at me for having a Chinese girlfriend at the time. It upset me at first, but I hear the same negative comments about Japanese people here in China. It all goes back to the Nanjing massacre and how Japanese people feel that Chinese are worthless bums. My wife is not too worried as she is more Japanese than some Japanese people I know. She can't wait to go back. I am excited as well as being in China is not for me. I miss Japan and its messed up ways.
Anyways, I will call the embassy to make sure everything I researched is correct.
Another quick question. If my wife happened to find a good job, could they sponsor her visa, and she would be able to change her status from Dependent to Work? Could she do that in Japan?
Thanks again for all the help. |
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ironopolis
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: |
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I'd noticed you mentioned you both having spent time in Japan before, so I expected the anti-China stuff, whilst perhaps worse of late than when you were here before, would be something that wouldn't be too hard for you to deal with, and would obviously be outweighed by the advantages for you of coming to Japan. I was thinking of it more as a possible reason why some employers might have sounded iffy about your wife getting a visa if they knew she was Chinese.
If your wife got a job, I think that her changing to whichever work visa is appropriate for that job would probably be a necessity, not an option. I believe you CAN get permission to do some work while on a dependent visa, but it's pretty restrictive and what would be allowed would presumably not be what you meant by "a good job". |
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jonathanj
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| ironopolis wrote: |
If your wife got a job, I think that her changing to whichever work visa is appropriate for that job would probably be a necessity, not an option. I believe you CAN get permission to do some work while on a dependent visa, but it's pretty restrictive and what would be allowed would presumably not be what you meant by "a good job". |
When I first met her, she was working 2 jobs. Part-time at a Kyu-Kyu store, and another part-time job was at Bamiyan's. Not ideal jobs at all. But after 7 years experience in Japan, she is now fluent in Chinese, Japanese, and English (I am also in the middle o teaching her French). By the time we go back, she will have translation, management, and admin/HR experience. I assume she will be able to get some decent interviews. I am just wondering if it's possible to change a dependent visa to a work (whatever classification) visa in-house. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I thought I read on MOFA that my wife will need to get a dependent visa before arriving. |
As I wrote earlier, have your wife check to see if Japan requires that she have some special permission or special visa in order to come here. Call the Chinese embassy in Japan, or call the Japanese embassy in China. She should be able to speak to people at either place.
If there is no special permission as I suspect, then yes, she can come here as a tourist while you come either as a tourist or on your work visa. And, after you arrive, she can apply for the dependent visa. Heck, I've known of people who have applied for both at the same time before even entering Japan.
| Quote: |
| we can both go to the Japanese embassy, and she could apply for a dependent visa based on my work visa. If this is not the case, then she will need documents from my employer saying that my wife is allowed to come with me. |
Your employer has absolutely zero say in whether your wife is "allowed" to enter Japan. That privilege rests with immigration and the Japanese Ministry of Justice. As someone else mentioned, your employer can have his own policy on whether you two can share their company-provided apartment (scummy as that sort of policy is), but that's all. Visas and entry to Japan are not an employer's responsibility.
| Quote: |
| it says the documents needed to get a Dependent visa is: proof of marriage, proof of job or income by the sponsor, and passport. Does this mean that once I get my COE, we can both go to the embassy together and she can apply for a dependent visa at the same time? |
Yes. She will need your documentation as proof of being her valid sponsor, and you are not valid unless you have the visa.
| Quote: |
| If my wife happened to find a good job, could they sponsor her visa, |
Not all employers choose to do that, but yes, in general they could, assuming they were able to provide the appropriate documentation as a sponsor (tax records, her contract, etc.).
| Quote: |
| and she would be able to change her status from Dependent to Work? Could she do that in Japan? |
Yes, and yes. |
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