Job Discussion Forums

AgentMulderUK · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:54 pm Post subject: Is this legal?(jumping ship)

I've got a job offer complete with potential work visa. Done some reading about the company and they sound far worse than I imagine.
Trouble is I've got to give 2 months notice before I can resign.

So, what happens if I just leave after 1 month, 1 week or even 1 day?
Then look elsewhere.

I keep my work visa, right? But do I need a Letter of Release from them before I can get a new sponsor?

I realise this is probably not exactly an ethical approach, but the more I've learned about this company, the more I have realised they wouldn't know what an ethic was if it hit them in the face....

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Have you signed a contract with them yet?

Ethics aside, yes, you retain your work visa.

BenJ · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 209 Location: Nagoya

you said 'job offer' - easy, dont accept it - look elsewhere. Then nobody stuffs anyone around.

lajzar · Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 647 Location: Saitama-ken, Japan

As I understand it, as long as you work with them long enough to receive your first pay packet, and you give proper notice and otherwise abide by the contract, they can't legally do anything to you should you leave early.

The 2 month bit is, afaik, overirdden by the law which says 1 month.

You don't yet have the visa. As long as the paperwork hasn't been started, there are no problems with turning this down.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Don't sign anything. You realize that the company is lousy and you haven't signed a contract. That's a no-brainer, find a new job.

AgentMulderUK · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:30 am Post subject:

No, i haven't signed yet.
I'd like to find another job, but my choices are limited here in Uk as i'm too old for the 'working holiday dream ticket'.
I have tried most of the Big companies and they all seem the same.

Guys, are sure about the notice time of 2months being overriden by the law. I thought a contract was pretty much whatever it says IF u sign it?

Thanks for all your help.

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Labour Standards Handbook says 2 weeks is what is required to give notice.

But, I hardly think a company is going to go to the trouble of hiring (or using their own) lawyers to track you down for breach of contract. The worst that can happen is you lose your last paycheck and any bonus, and you will have to vacate your apartment (if they sponsor it) ASAP.

Ditching a company in the middle of a contract is pretty low, in my opinion, unless there is just cause. I don't call "greener pastures" just cause.

Wolf · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth

AgentMulderUK · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:56 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I know its not exacty a professional thing to do. Thats why I've got major qualms about doing it.

I was just thinking ahead. I'll give them a couple of weeks, IF they are as aswful as I think they are, I can leave, under Japanese law, by giving 1 months notice

I am arranging my own apartment so thats not a problem.
I can probably survive with the first pay cheque also.

Its just what happens when I find a new employer in Japan and I wave my work visa at them? Can they just sponsor me, or does my ex-employer need to give the new one permission or something? Because I dont think they will want to help me, of course.

Once again, I really appreciate all the responses.
I am stressing out here.

lajzar · Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 647 Location: Saitama-ken, Japan

A former employer has no power to cancel a work visa once issued. You are supposed to get a formal letter of release on ending a job, which the employer is legally required to provide - they can't use it as a bargaining chip at all.

AgentMulderUK · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:08 pm Post subject:

Thanks lajzar, thats what I wanted to know. Smile

I will sleep easier tonight, if slightly guilty....

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Mulder, you seem like a decent enough guy. Is it that difficult to get a work visa that you'd come to Japan knowing that you'll break your contract?
How long have you been looking to teach here?

G Cthulhu · Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:55 am Post subject:

Err, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in your *first* year of a contract they can pretty much dictate what they like as a notice period.

The Courts have said one month for most people in their first year and two weeks for years after that, but (as the general union website (and others) make plain) it's *not* specified in law directly. It's all case law and nothing else.

That said, they're not likely to do much about it. At most they withhold wages to the value of the notice period. If it's a small owner-operator school then they can personally sue you in small claims court (I've met people that have had that happen to them, btw) for the wages/notice period.

The time to negoiate over the notice period is *before* you sign the cnotract.

BenJ · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 209 Location: Nagoya

what worries me is you are asking for help in how to use and abuse a school - seems you are intentionally picking an "awful" school so you don't feel as guilty about letting them get you a work visa and then bailing.

Many places will hire you from overseas and the teaching is what you make it.