Job Discussion Forums

[Atlas*]

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080116a1.html

Saw about this on the morning news and read it in this Japan Times article. I thought it odd that it hadn't made its way onto Dave's.

Basically the Foreign and Justice Ministries are proposing that in the future long-term foreign residents may face a language test.
I'm kind of wondering how long-term they are planning at?
Also how difficult their test would be?

I know that for most instructors this may not have any impact, and if we plan on being long-term residents then having Japanese should be pretty much common sense but still I'm not one much for testing. This after the government has introduced the fingerprinting and photoing of foreigners to Japan seems to be their next attempt at organising (controlling) the foreign community of Japan. I know it might just be a proposal at the moment but it might grow into something before we all realise it.
Anyway just thought I'd provide the link so people can make up their own minds.

[alexcase]

Thanks, interesting link.

I don't think it's a bad idea as described, assuming that is their real attempt and it does turn out that way. If someone offered me a 5 year visa if I did my Level 2, I might get round to doing it finally. No comment on the International Press website yet(http://www.ipcdigital.com/default1.asp?descrIdioma=es),
but I'll be interested to read what the Peruvians and Brazilians think of the proposal.

[Quibby84]

I wonder if you could get on with a spouse that speaks Japanese...like think of the tons of newly married Japanese to gaijin that havent yet perfected their Japanese...would they have to go home until they were able to pass the test?
And if you did have to take the test, would you have to wait every year until December to take it...also, my state barely even had a Japanese lang. program, and the one they did have would have never let me pass the level 2 JLPT..what would people like that do?
Seems like it would be more complicated than it sounds...

[alexcase]

The article states that passing the test would get you extra benefits, rather than not passing it would be punished. If that is indeed the case, the only possible argument against it is that it could discriminate against the unskilled labour that Japan is going to need at least as much as skilled labour as the workforces ages and shrinks. I totally understand the fear of any extra government involvement in our lives in any country, but in principle this proposal sounds sensible to me.

[Jon Taylor]

Why don't the Japanese simply pass a law banning all foreigners from their oh so wonderful country.

Us foreigners are doing a service to this nation by coming over and offering our services to teach the World's International Language. They should have a little more respect.

What would happen in the US if the government told all of the Hispanics that they had to learn English in order to stay.......or in England if all of the Asians were told they had to speak a certain level in order for them to stay.

Just who the hell do the Japanese think they are......

[Glenski]

[cjuno]

Excellent post Glenski. Couldn't agree more.
"...speak Japanese to fit into the Japanese society." Now that's a good one! lol If only it were true.

[alexcase]

If you are, like me, both a migrant yourself and vaguely left wing, then it is very easy to be against anything that puts any restrictions on immigration. That attitude is not going to increase our very limited ability to have an influence on what happens. The pressure on the Japanese government to do something about immigration come from:

- A belief from the press and some of the public that immigration is a significant element of crime and potential terrorism, and pressure to do something about it

- Pressure from industry to provide the foreign staff they need to bring in both highly skilled workers to make them more competitive and unskilled workers to keep costs down and do jobs that Japanese will not do

- Some pressure from abroad on human trafficking

- Some pressure from the embassies of countries like Peru and Brazil

and right down the list, if on there at all, the opinions of English teachers. You will notice that few of the elements above have much to gain from a law on racial discrimination.

As our embassies can hardly protest when our own countries are increasingly much stricter than Japan, apart from coming up with a fabulous idea that all the groups above and us can agree on, the only ways we can increase our influence over the long term is:

- Become a Japanese citizen and so get the vote and run for a political post, and so join the list above

- Keep our kids in the Japanese system (public schools etc.) so we don't become invisible

- Leave the country in droves until there is a national shortage of English teachers, and make sure everyone knows why

- Increase pressure from outside Japan- the fact that they are paying more attention to human trafficking now means this can work

- Try and influence one of the groups in the first list, for example persuading industry pressure groups they can only get the staff they want by internationally acceptable laws on racial discrimination

[Glenski]

Interesting points, alex, but let's not forget that Japan voluntarily signed the 1995 treaty against racial discrimination, yet has not enacted a single law to enforce it, because (in their own weak reply why) it is too hard to enforce. Stupid, but that's what they say.

Human trafficking shouldn't take place, period. Why should a country as modern and civilized as Japan (second largest economy in the world) have to be told by outsiders that this is a bad thing?

"A belief from the press and some of the public that immigration is a significant element of crime and potential terrorism"? I think this is a chicken and the egg situation here, plus the fact that the Japanese government is terribly inbred with second and third generation families in charge. You aren't so naive as to realize that, plus the fact that lots of closed door meetings take place which discuss these matters, and public image is the only reason sometimes that anything gets done. Look at the constant denials of crimes committed by legislators themselves right up to the point where the evidence makes it completely undeniable.

Keeping one's kids in the public school system so they aren't invisible sort of baffles me. Aside from the bullying and discrimination against them that takes place there, I don't see how this improves matters with immigration.

Your last item seems to have the strongest merit, but so many foreigners are here short-term (or feel they are until it's "too late") that they just don't care. A 2001 Ministry of Justice graph (www.generalunion.org) shows that less than 10% of foreigners stay in Japan more than 3 years, for example.

I think we should all keep our eyes and ears open on issues like the one in the article, but keep something else equally in mind. This was a very preliminary statement. It is probably full of holes in translation by the newspaper and full of misunderstandings between newspaper and Justice officials (one of whom even remained anonymous, which says something in itself). We should take a wait and see attitude, but not sit idly on our butts while this happens. The problem is, even if very fluent foreigners take part in proceedings to have their say, the record shows that they can be jeered at and shouted down and ignored by the Japanese officials in a childish yet effective method to silence us beyond the language barrier. (I refer to the following as proof, from a meeting to discuss human rights themselves! http://www.debito.org/index.php/?p=544

[flyer]

I just got my perm residence visa

LOL

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

[Glenski]

[Quibby84]

How did you get that? (the perm. res. visa I mean)

[Wintermute]

I don't think it's such a bad idea either if, like alex said, it's implemented properly. I can understand the reasoning behind the move, I feel the same way. If you intend to live in a country longer than 3 years then you should try your best to learn the language and participate more in the culture. I find living here frustrating as much as the next foreigner but being able to speak and understand Japanese makes the experience more tolerable.

[Quibby84]

Its true, but what about the millions of schools in Japan that hire teachers. I remember at my school they had SO much trouble finding a teacher that spoke Japanese for a certain ALT position...