Job Discussion Forums

[lumpy]

Hello,
I've been employed by the same company for nearly 2 years under a contratto a progetto. There's another discussion on this board about this, but the laws have changed, and I'm not sure the info is up to date.

Anyway, from what I hear, with a new revision in the Legge Biagi, with any contratto a progetto, after 2 years you have to be hired ("Assunto a tempo Indeterminato") or be let go. The rationale (and quite logical) is that a project can't go on forever. I imagine there's a loophole somewhere for my company, but I don't want to be

a) stuck holding the bag when I'm working illegally under an invalid contract.
b) working on a Co.Co.Pro when legally I'm entitled to be working on a legitimate contract like the other 89% of the working population.
c) unknowingly covering for any illegal tax-evasion on the part of my employer. Frankly, I have my own problems.

I imagine there's little way around this problem, and I imagine I should be happy to be working legally and making a (barely) livable wage, but it's worth asking about.

...here's to getting rid of precarity.

[Teacher in Rome]

I wouldn't be too confident about getting a permanent contract - few teachers have one and employers can probably get round any rules by saying you're on a renewable project from September to June.

You can tell whether or not your employer is paying tax or INPS by looking at your pay slip (busta paga). If you're being paid in cash, then I doubt your employer is paying any contributions at all.

[lumpy]

I think they're paying Imps. Hold on...

Yep, they paid.
I don't expect I'll see a retirement, so I don't even consider that money.

I'm more interested in job security, which teaching doesn't offer and a better contract would.

Plus I wanted to have some ammunition when it comes time to ask for a raise (or rise if you're from the UK).

It seems logical that if they want to keep someone at their post after 2 years and not have to offer them any security or contractual improvements, an increase in hourly wage would be more than justifiable. Of course they don't think so...

I Don't think they can say I work from Sept/June, since my project is for 1 full year.

[Teacher in Rome]

Well, you're right about job security! Not much here, nor anywhere else I would imagine. You don't say where you work, or much about your employer, but in my experience with Italian companies, you a) either make yourself so useful and so employable that their only option is to keep you on as a FT employee with rights and privileges, or b) you find another employer with better terms and conditions.

The supply of teachers in Italy (except in smaller out-of-the-way places) is pretty high, and the profit margins of schools is pretty low. These factors make it almost impossible to convince employers to give you a decent contract. If you're so good or so indispensable that their business can't run successfully without you, then you're onto a winner contract-wise. But a huge stumbling block is going to be the rights of a FT permanent employee. Very few companies want to take on someone they can't fire, or someone they have to pay a 13-month salary, full pension rights and so on.

So where does that leave you? If you want to stay in Italy long-term, I would suggest going freelance or trying to work in state schools. Alternatively, try to find work in a larger training company who might need someone long-term who knows the business and the clients, and who can do all manner of teaching-related tasks such as testing, evaluations, materials development and so on.

[spiral78]

I'm suspecting this poster is not an EU citizen (from the raise/rise distinction). If so, that would have some bearing on his/her situation...in terms of limiting which options are realistically open for the future.

[lumpy]

Yup.
I'm an adopted american.

Actually I prefer the Co.Co.Pro to my prospects under the Partita Iva. Much cheaper.

In any case, if it turns out that 2+ years under this contract is illegal, they should make it worth my while to cover for them.

[SueH]

I think there have been some recent changes to the partita IVA laws that make it more of an option for people with low turnover (I once read a claimthat it only made sense if you were invoicing �2300 a month!). I haven't got the link to hand at the moment, but maybe TiR will be along soon to help out.

Off for some lovely footie training in the rain, but I'll have a dig around later.

[Teacher in Rome]

Yo Sue - eccomiqua!

Unless you have residency (and therefore have been through all the hoops to stay legally) then I don't think you can open a P Iva.

The new rules on minimum taxation (law 244/07 I think it is) mean you don't need to invoice for IVA as long as your total invoices are under �30,000 p.a. There are other restrictions too, such as not buying over a certain value of goods, or not employing other people. You don't have to fulfil the requirements of the "sector studies" and you only pay 20% tax, as opposed to 28% or so.

To the OP: your situation doesn't sound too hopeful unless you have the right to work legally. If you are "illegal", perhaps your school would help you out by sponsoring you for a working visa? It's a hassle, but it would mean you could stay legally. Good luck, anyway.

[SueH]

Nothing like having an invigorating run in the rain expectorating my lungs up... and delegating a problem.

Hands up any individuals invoicing �30,000.... ah, not many I see.