Job Discussion Forums

[peterberlin1980]

I'm writing to ask for peoples experiences (suggestions?) in obtaining release letters when leaving a Chinese company and also to make a specific warning about Web International Guangzhou. At present Web refuse to release me from my contract. A few months ago while working for Web I started looking for another job. One staff member regularly threatened and verbally abused others, complaints were ignored due to his good relationship with the centre director. One of the foreign teachers who stood up to this behaviour was then fired. No explanation, no notice, no compensation. Flouting the contract they just told her she did not have a job anymore. I didn't want to work at the centre after that. I found another job (at lower pay-I just wanted to get out of there), I gave a month's notice and I saw it through. During that period the company revealed it would not be giving me a release letter (now legally necessary when changing companies during a contract). They told me that they wanted me to stay. They refused to accept the resignation. They say I cannot work for another company of a similar type to them (training centres). If I come to them with a contract from a school, kindergarten, university they will release me from the contract, if I go to another training centre they won't. I want to work for a training centre (motivated, fantastic students-at least double the money available in the public sector) but theres no way i'd continue working for Web Guangzhou. If they want to sack you they'll ignore the contract completley, if they want to keep you, they'll threaten legal proceedings and deportation. The labour office has told me that Web should give me a release letter but they can't force them. I'd be grateful to hear other peoples experiences when transfering from one company here to another.

[Lorean]

Well, first get a contract from a kindergarten and use it to bluff the release letter out of them. However, don't hold your breath.

Take the following with a grain of salt:

I think you are trying to be too calm, too reasonable.

You gave them appropriate notice, and there's nothing they can contractually hold against you, yes?

Have you tried yelling, jumping up and down, smashing stuff (of yours) and threatening to dispatch a lawyer?

A seriously doubt they could have you deported. At my previous employ, the overlord threatened us with all sorts of terrible and nasty things they had done to 'bad teachers'.

They can terminate your visa, in which case you are given a grace period in which you must leave the country. But this is not the same as deportation which can only be done by the government and requires legal enforcement.

[peterberlin1980]

Lorean, thanks for your suggestions. Much appreciated.

The bluff - Best option available

Yelling, jumping, smashing - I would love to but I've seen people attempt these tactics with Web before to little effect.

Lawyer threats - Have made these threats both at the local level and to the HQ in Shanghai. Unfortunately I don't have the resources to follow up on them. I would guess that Web would imagine this to be the case hence are not too worried about them.

The deportation question arises if I start to work for another training centre before my Web contract has been terminated. The company I was planning to move to has told me that, if Web wanted to pursue it, deportation could be a real possibility, also this company's centre could be shut down as they would be illegally employing someone still under contract at Web. Hence they won't employ me until I have the letter. I have asked around at other training centres in Guangzhou and they have also stated they wouldn't employ me in my current situation and that starting the application process would be futile.

Again, thanks for taking the time to offer your suggestions.

[lostinasia]

There is the threating/physically intimidating route ... there is also the begging/crying way.

Fact is, the school has no legal obligation to provide a release letter or letter of recommendation if you have no fulfilled your full contract term.

[kungfucowboy83]

you can always find the person who actually is in charge of writting the things and treat them to a nice dinner...

[malu]

Applying for many school/uni jobs by email you will often receive a 'sample' contract as a Word doc by return. Obtain one of these, print it off, accidentally sign it here and there, then waft it under the nose of your ex employer. Tell him that you're off to work in Inner Mongolia or the like.

[peterberlin1980]

Thanks for your constructive replies.
lostinasia-yes, you're right
kongfucowboy-always a good plan, in this case it's the centre director, she does not speak english, if she agreed to come to dinner (unlikely) i don't think it would have any bearing on her decision. She already knows I have a young family to support and has provocitavely asked me how I will support them if she dosen't release me.
malu-Thank you for your ingenuity

[The Voice Of Reason]

My advice: have fun; make them sack you (whilst still remaining within the law, of course).

[Lorean]

[peterberlin1980]

hi V.O.R, i should have, at the time i was trying to persuade not force them, i finished last friday ( they have filled the position ), they have a christmas party tomorrow at a big hotel, maybe i'll go there and do something outrageous...

Lorean, fair question as I brought the subject up, I'm set up in China, my wife's family is here, we have friends, (small) business interests, flat, a mortgage. if i'd known the importance of a release letter when switching training centres i wouldn't have put all this at risk and just grun and borne it at web. If you're thinking of leaving your job mid-contract make sure you're aware of it, I should have been.

[Anda]

I'm sorry but I don't know the set up here yet well but in South Korea if you did visa run and told immigration that you were leaving your job then your work visa would be cancelled and you could then reapply for work with another company. Normally immigration is a province by province thing so if you move to another province then you are off to a fresh start but it seems that you are stuck where you are working.

Also I would check just how legal your contract actually is. If it is just a photo copy then it probably isn't legal.

[Kram]

My suggestion would be either find a training centre with more guanxi than Web, or bite the bullet and do a semester with a uni or middle school...

Hope you can sort it out...

[lostinasia]

The rule in China is simple. You are legally tied to your employer of record (visa, FEC, RAP) until the full contractual term has run its course or until you have been properly released (letter of release and letter of recommendation).

There are the stories as it were about just going to a new province, but that is changing as the system is becoming centralized for cross-checking.

Losing your passport as some have suggested is entirely pathetic and sad.

Sure, losing the passport which contains the physical permit, visa, etc. will increase the odds of getting newly issues credentials in a new province, but it's just sad that someone would go so far as to do that - I think that it is proof enough of something fishy going on that requires someone to do that rather than go back to their home country and get a "real job."

[arioch36]

Unfortunately, much of it is not in your hands.

two approaches, wine the person (you said you didn't think it would work. Wasn't there, could be she wanted a bribe

or be a pain in their but, tell students parents what this school is doing, etc. Just make sure to pysically attend your classes

The release letter is their only real threat over you.

Have they broken any contract items? If so, you can write a letter of breach of contract, thereby making it permissible to have the contract legally ended on SAFEA books, and allowing you to find another employer

[peterberlin1980]

hi aroch36, as of last friday i don't work for the company, they don't need me back either as they've already replaced me, they just don't want me working for any of their competitors, hence no release letter. went to their xmas party this evening and told the students (they are mainly adults) what the company was doing, most weren't too interested (no reason they should be, why assist one of your teachers leave the school?) just wished me good luck, some were shocked, maybe they won't renew their contracts with Web. Over the last year and a half Web have broken many items of my contract. Who do I present a letter of breach of contract to? The labour office? This is an avenue I haven't tried yet, thanks for your suggestion.
lostinasia-thanks for the clarification
kram-all the training centres i've talked to have been jumpy about taking me on without this letter. they understandably don't want to have complications. thanks for the good will

i have a plan in place. i'll post here if it works out. many thanks for all the help.