Job Discussion Forums

[btkong]

I am in taiwan, kaohsiung on a 60 day vistor visa studying mandarin.

I did a bit of a job search and was offered a position with a buxiban for afternoons (i go to a chinese class at uni during mornings). They want a 1 year contract to be signed. I am only here for 2 months, MAYBE 3.

I will have to break the contract. Can I do this? If I do, what will happen (I intend to head to china after, so I don't care if they cancel my ARC visa or whatever they give me). Are there legal ramifications?

Thanks

[markholmes]

What about the moral obligation and the legacy of distrust you leave behind for the next teacher?

Grow up.

[parrothead]

That's really no good for either party. For your employer, they will have to go to a lot of trouble getting you set up, training you in earnest, and helping you secure a work visa. If you leave, you add to the already negative perception about transient and selfish foreign English teachers and make it difficult for the next teacher who comes along. You also might not get any of your earnings, probably not your last paycheck. Why should they feel obligated to pay you if you don't live up to your end of the contract? You are in Taiwan to study the language. Why not focus on that? Perhaps you can find private students to teach if you feel you need more money.

[LKJ]

Yes, you can break your contract.

You will lose all tax
You will lose pay
You will upset the children
You will leave your school with a serious problem
You will reinforce the need for nasty clauses in future teacher contracts
You will probably find it hard to get another job when you return to Taiwan (as you will realize that Taiwan is a much nicer experience)

Why not just tell them your plans and offer to work cash in hand for a few months? If they say yes everyone is a winner and nobody gets hurt. If they say no, just do some privates.

BTW - not caring what happens to you is different to not caring about the impact your actions have on other people.

Grow up = the best advice given to you so far.

[btkong]

No need to rain down fire and brimstone here guys. The reason why I posted the question was so I could find out what the ramification's are. I've never been an "English Teacher" so I didn't know if breaking the contract is like breaking a one year lease (for a house), which is not a big deal. Clearly it is. I guess English teachers do have an unsavory reputation (perhaps because of this?), as from my mandarin conversations with the locals, they don't seem to really like the English teachers -- it's like night and day difference in treatment if you tell the locals you are a university student, not an English teacher!!

I have some recruiter offering me the job despite the fact that I've clearly told him I'm only here for 2-3 months and can only work afternoons. Despite this, he lined up a job then threw in the 1-year contract as a sort of afterthought.

I would rather not cause trouble for a school that hires me in good faith (unless they are screwing me around). I'll get back to him and see if maybe a school can work out a cash-only deal or something.

I don't think privates are going to happen. Seeing that I'm here for only a couple months, it's going to be hard to get a bunch of private students; from what I hear, you usually start off at a buxiban and gain contacts which lead to privates.

[parrothead]

[pest2]

OK, I'll argue the other side:

Labor contracts that obligate either party to employment in case such employent is not desired by either party are, in themselves, immoral to begin with... Labor contracts should never be made into slavery contracts; parties in an agreement about work should always be free to terminate their ongoing exchange of liberty for property according to their own free will.... We do believe we have rights, liberty, and free will. We dont agree to give up those rights just because we came to work in another country... thank God we can just hop the plane and do a runner in case our schools abuse us and try to violate our freedoms..

++ that is, UNLESS either party has invested a considerable sum of assets in the other party beforehand and breaking a contract would be detrimental to that investment...

So, in Korea for example, there's a really good argument for having year-long labor contracts. Schools in that country usually pay airfare and pre-pay for teachers' apartments. If teachers dont remain at a school for a set amount of time, schools lose property unfairly and against a valid contractual agreement.

In Taiwan, on the other hand, I fail to see what schools invest in teachers. They rarely, if ever, pay teachers' airfares. They dont provide teachers with a place to live. If there is training at your school in Taiwan, usually they dont pay you for the time you spend on it; on the contrary, many schools force you to do training to work at those schools and then they actually require you to pay! Hell, you would be really lucky to have someone draw you a map of how to find the friggin school in Taiwan. Taiwanese schools must be some of the cheapest, pettiest, and most un-accomodating in the world.

Having a contract requiring a time commitment in Taiwan is a way for the schools to screw over teachers here if need be. If there's a dispute between teachers and schools about pay or working hours or some other thing that might reasonably cause a teacher to terminate a working agreement, the schools can simply point to the contract and fine the teacher in case the teacher decides to quit. For example, one school I know of decided to close for 1 month and not pay teachers during that time AFTER those teachers and all signed a year-long contract. Of course, the school never told the teachers about the closure before signing the contract... But since there is a contract in force, and for some other legal reasons (the school manuevered in a way such as to ensure the contract would not be broken according to Taiwan labor law by setting dates for the close in a certain way), the teachers would still be breaking the contract with that school and would still have to pay a fine if they decided to quit and move to another school.

Personally, I hope to see as many people here in Taiwan who are sick of getting reamed by the schools here just go ahead and break their contracts and move on to some other country.. serves em right!!

OP, I recommend you do what you need to do for your own interests while you are in Taiwan. Schools here do only what is in their own interest so you are in no way required to do better. If you need to work to pay your bills while you are here and that means breaking an immoral contract, you go right ahead and do that!

[ontoit]

Pest 2,

A contract establishes conditions that will prevail over a given period of time. If a contract does not obligate the parties thereto to respect both the term and conditions therein, then it is entirely meaningless to draw one up in the first place.

[forest1979]

pest2,

You wrote...

"Labor contracts that obligate either party to employment in case such employent is not desired by either party are, in themselves, immoral to begin with... Labor contracts should never be made into slavery contracts; parties in an agreement about work should always be free to terminate their ongoing exchange of liberty for property according to their own free will.... We do believe we have rights, liberty, and free will. We dont agree to give up those rights just because we came to work in another country... thank God we can just hop the plane and do a runner in case our schools abuse us and try to violate our freedoms.."

Are you trying to be the new Aristotle? This is the kind of thing he would spout? Or have you just recently read a book on William Wilberforce? Or worse still, have you become a clone of George W Bush. He always bangs on about freedoms too and look what a mess he makes....and he too can just hop on a plane and do a runner.

[BigWally]

OP:

First, go to www.myu.com.tw and set up a profile for yourself. I had several teacher friends who did this and their phones were ringing with people looking for private tutors within a week.

Second, print up a flyer, with English & Chinese and your phone number, and picture on it. Post it around the University on message boards and what not. I know there are a lot of University students always looking to improve their conversational English.

These are 2 easy things you can do, and then you don't have to worry about taxes, you get paid cash after each lesson, and you don't have to be considered "just another English teacher trying to screw the average Taiwanese". You can probably improve your Mandarin as well.

Oh, and don't hesitate to be firm on your pricing. I wouldn't tutor for less than $700/hr. Or if they want a group rate, maybe $1000/hr for 2 people.