Job Discussion Forums

[seriousgirl]

Dear All,

For my health and sanity, I am considering leaving Riyadh during this holiday, and going to a job offered in another country. I have resigned according to the contract here with 2 months notice, but now my employer is holding my pay,it appears as an incentive to stay. Not impressed!

However, I intend to apply for more positive places like PMU very soon.

Does it really matter if you do a 'runner', and then have a new, clean passport to present when applying for a new visa?

Otherwise, I can suffer through the rest of the semester, probably not get an ROC/NOC anyway because 'they never give them out here' , and end up with a final exit visa soiling my new passport.

Should I even care?

Help!

Serious

[scot47]

Go and worry about the NOC later. (not ROC) NOC is NO OBJECTION CERTIFICATE

[balqis]

If your problem is mostly - or exclusively- your current employer then you can mull over Hail. But if your problem is Riadh, or broader all things Saudi, then be careful with Hail.
Whatever your set of circumstances, Hail should be viewed in general as risky for a woman, especially a woman like you and even more so if you seem to be suffering in Riadh.
Even if you love all things Saudi, Hail should always be considered risky as permanent destination, regardless of how picturesque and heady it may be for some as travel place.
Risky means here: you must be very cautious with measuring how much of the Hail type ambiance you can take in and stay well and balanced same time.
This is what and how I think.
yallah tc,
balqis

[seriousgirl]

Scot, thanks for your comment about the NOC.

Balqis, thanks for your comments about Hail.

The problem is mostly, unfortunately, my employer, and lately my immediate supervisor. Too bad, because the other things here turned out quite well; I settled into my house and generally I am building a nice life. As VS commented in another forum, be careful about jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

As far as KSA goes, I imagine PMU would be the best place to be at the moment. Otherwise I am considering a couple of places in Oman ,Nizwa or Sur,for the immediate future. But of course I will not know until I get there if it is better or worse. Looks like I have to make a quick decision, though. People here think I should just relax and give it more time where I am, as I have only been here for 3 months, but...the atmosphere at work...

Well, we'll see...

serious

[balqis]

If you can handle Arabia and manage to have a life of your own in Riadh than you can handle a lot more than you in fact think you can- in fact you are a winner even though your current supervisor may not think so and you may feel downtrodden by her. But these are uniques Arabian conditions and one has to use very coarse-grained lenses on things while there - it is never refined white suger, but at most some rough and tough demerara variety [ some, though, like it this way more than any other refined way]. Is it really worth the trouble you incur by running away, if you can have a life there, just to quit on account of your current employer? S/he is only a passing phenomenon, and you would have to bear with her/him only till June [ ''only till June'' may be an example of understatement in certain circumstance, Arabian especially, but still it is a countable period of time, not for ever; but there are certain tactics, even if ones sort of on the edge, to survive six more months, even in Arabia; true, you have to judge carefully where you are with your self and how much tether you still have at your disposal; if it is the end, you should leave, but maybe it is not yet the end].
NOC issue is not so simple as it may look like in the ''lose your passport'' scenario. You ''may'' lose your passport and be back in Arabia on a new one but then things with your previous visa/stay may be rediscovered and have pretty unpleasant sequels. It is only a ''may'' mode, but still it does happen.
You may also consider a transfer of your current work visa with your current employer to another employer in Arabia. If both side of the contract - which means not only you but also your employer - are so unhappy with each other that they prefer not to have any more dealings with each other, then this is also legally doable.

If it is your first encounter with Arabia, it MUST be painful and teary [ it is healthy that way]. As with everything else, you must know your measure. But with such dire circumstnces as things are there, it is even hard to know what your measure is, as the one you bring with you from nonArabia is simply highly inapplicable. So you are measureless, with no hard bottom, and it causes lots of extreme, vertigo type, reactions. Some of them truly you can take in and carry on regardless of this vertigo [and with the vertigo! - just ignore your self as much as you are able to...]. Only with certain amount of toil you should not cope any longer. But are you really there?
Wish you right estimation of your external as well as internal parameters.
yallah tc,
balqis

[Cleopatra]

The problem with doing a runner and applying for another Saudi job with a new passport is that you will not be able to mention your previous Saudi experience on your CV. This is because it is likely any future Saudi employer will want to know that you ended on good terms with your previous employer - and have the NOC to prove it. Otherwise, they run the slight but still existent risk of getting into trouble for employing someone 'illegally'.

Some say that the NOC requirement has been dropped, but this news does not appear to have filtered down to those that really count - the embassy staffers. It's a little bit like the supposed demise of the silly law which demands that 'unescorted' women be met on arrival in the airport by their sponsors. That may be true 'in theory' but just a few days ago I had a hard time leaving Riyadh airport alone, because apparently it was just too 'difficult' for me to get a taxi home by myself. When, in reality, the problem in Riyadh airport is avoiding the taxi touts in the arrival halls.

[Paul76]

It is risky to do a runner without an exit visa. However I know a few people who have done it without an exit visa. If you do a runner without an NOC, from what I heard it would take six months before you can apply for a visa for KSA. You need to decide on two things is it worth it to stay. Work is only for a few hours a day. What matters is what you do in your freetime to make your saty happy. The second thing is , are you going to be happy if you do a runner? Have you another job lined up in a different country?

[scot47]

Risky ? I cannot see how you could leave KSA if you had no exit visa. I had one - rather unstable - colleague in Jeddah who tried it. He drove from Jeddah to Tabuk and then tried to drive through the desert. He was brought back.

In KSA you need a valid passport with a valid exit visa. Otherwise you stay where you are. Some foreigners find this very difficult to cope with. Especially those from the Land of the Brave and the Home of the Free !

[johnslat]

The lady (at least I assume she's a lady, going by the user name) mentioned in her OP that she was "considering leaving Riyadh during the holiday", so I assume (admittedly it's an assumption) that she would have an exit/return visa (though she'd only be using the "exit" part.)
I've known at least three teachers who did the same thing, got new passports (I know one did the "Dear Passport Service Office: Oops, I left my passport in my trousers when I washed them" routine), and then returned to the Kingdom apparently without any problems.
I still think the better choice would be to "suffer through the rest of the semester", and I believe that not all employers are adamant about your having an NOC (the IPA almost never would give them to departing teachers; they did issue what they called a "Letter of No Obligation" - not the same thing. However, many ex-IPA teachers have been rehired by other employers in the KSA, even without the NOC.)
Finally, if I may, a comment on scot47's last post. In my 19 years in the Kingdom, I met a good number of foreigners who found the place "difficult to cope with." However, I don't recall that we residents "from the Land of the Brave and the Home of the Free" were so proportionally prominent in that regard.
The Animal's classic rock:

"We've gotta get out of this place
if it's the last thing we ever do
We've gotta get out of this place
Girl there's a better life for me and you"

was popular among many nationalities.
Actually, I think almost all ex-pats can find Saudi Arabia a difficult place to adjust to, and considering its unique culture, that's not very surprising.

[007]

[johnslat]

Dear 007,
Ah, but come November (well, January 20, 2009), perhaps we can merit that appellation once again, inshallah.
Regards,
John

[Paul76]

I know I may going off the topic about the lady. However in reference to Scott's reply .I would like to ask a question. If you enter the kingdom with a single entry visa. Before you get your Igama. Can you still leave the country without an exit visa? It is just I know some people who entered the kingdom for a week and tehn left without the exit visa and without having the Igama.

[scot47]

Yes a fair number of other nationals in KSA do not like the 'lack of personal freedom' implied in surrendering passports etc.

Can't say that it worries me. But then I work for a civilised employer and have a measure of serenity. Well sometimes.

[veiledsentiments]

I do believe that our discussion is moot and our OP has moved on to greener pastures.

VS

[johnslat]

Dear veiledsentiments,
True - but there could well be others in similar situations, pondering the same alternatives.
Regards,
John