Job Discussion Forums

[Travels]

Hi, I'm new to Dave's forum and I would really like to get a feel for how women fare teaching in Asia. I know that the view of women is Asia is a lot different than in the west.

1. How are women teachers generally treated in Asia? Personal experiences would be much appreciated.
2. How do these views differ in the different countries, i.e. Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc.?
3. What are the best and worst countries for women to teach in in Asia?

I am 26 years old and looking to head to Asia next fall. I'm wondering the best countries to consider. Any information you have would be wonderful. Also, I would really like to hear different viewpoints, negative AND positive. Cheers!

[Extraordinary Rendition]

[Travels]

Thanks ER for "bothering" to reply to me. Your information is much appreciated.
I'm American, have a BA in English, a TEFL cert (Oxford), and 1 year teaching experience (mainly business English) in Germany. Not sure what kind of teaching to consider with these credentials (I'm in the beginning stages of my research). I am looking to teach in either So. Korea, Taiwan, or Vietnam next year.
I met a girl recently who had taught in So. Korea and apparently she had a really bad time. She said that women aren't treated very well over there. I asked her about it but she didn't give me many more details. Also, from my point of view, men seem to enjoy Asia more, maybe because Western Man+Eastern Woman works better than Eastern Man+Western Woman.
Are western woman seen as very promiscuous and treated disrespectfully?
And also, are unmarried women over the age of 25 treated like old maids?
I hope these questions aren't completely stupid. Thanks again for posting and I hope more people can add their thoughts.

[Extraordinary Rendition]

Can't tell tou anything about the countries you mentioned, but look at the forums on those places and draw your own conclusions. I have a few colleagues (male) who "did time" in Korea. I use that phrase because that's how they described it. Why "Eastern Man + Western Woman" is far less common than the converse, I can't say, except that in Thailand certainly the women are attracted to the security westerners' relative affluence offers. I'm not a Thai man, nor am I a woman, so, again, draw your own conclusions. Would you be considered an "old maid" by Thais? I think everything western is mysterious to Thais, just as eastern culture is mysterious to us. But, there are many educated Thai women your age who are single (certainly not a majority, not a majority are educated). I know. I checked .

As for what kind of teaching to consider, depends on the country. You have excellent qualifications. Read the forums on the countries you're interested in. Nothing substitutes for doing your research.

[773]

I can speak for Taiwan, and I am a woman (married):

Yes, western women are seen as promiscuous and are seen to have been brought up with "too much freedom." But, western women are not treated disrespectfully by the Taiwanese generally. They have mannerisms that we consider to be rude though (they will make fun of you to your face and call you "big nose" and the like, but they do that to each other, too. It's a cultural thing, not against Westerners in specific). They will scrutinize everything that you do, eat, etc. But again, this is cultural and if you learn to ignore it (or laugh at it!), you will be fine. Some people find that this gets to them, though...usually people that have hang-ups about being overweight, for example, get tired of the Taiwanese telling them constantly that they are fat. I knew one woman who had just come to Taiwan (she was very overweight) and got so tired of incessantly getting picked on that she left after a month.

Unmarried women in Taiwan are old maids once they hit 30. You will still be seen as a youngin' and very marriageable.

Good luck!

[Glenski]

This and the companion book which started it all may be helpful for Japan. Don't let the title fool you. It was written by a woman.
http://www.being-a-broad.com/

I would also advise you to visit the individual country forums and ask directly.

[roset]

I worked in China a few years back, and was surprised by how much of an issue it was being female, white and blonde. the school i was at palmed off all the kids classes on me which considering their spoiled behaviours wasn't fantastic.

Occassionally men could be out of order. One guy rubbed his hand against my leg as I walking down the street and another girl was mugged, although I am not sure whether that was because she was female or western, - I am guessing that it was a mixture of both. Guys didn't seem to have too much respect for females over there. Most of them would just stare and point, but I guess there are always going to be the limited few wherever you go...

[travelgoddess]

BY THE HOUR?!?!?!? For real?

(scratching my head)

I have worked in both Taiwan and Vietnam and have traveled in Thailand.

In Taiwan I lived in the "conservative" (read; hick) south and had extreme examples of kindness and downright awful behavior. On one hand, my kids at school and my local friends were amazingly nice and tolerant of how different I was to them. On the street I was repeatedly thrown mean phrases when hanging out with local friends (especially local male friends). My local female friends had numerous questions about "Sex in the City" and wanted to know if that was how all American women lived. It didnt matter how many times I pointed out that it was a TV show, we were/are seen as um sexually undiscriminatory (sp?).

In Vietnam there was less pointing out of differences and more groping. Mostly by random old men, mostly on the street. In general, they were friendlier and seemed more amused by our differences than annoyed and trying to sqush me into their societal box. Still, when walking home late at night I would get random men following me sometimes saying things like "I love you." or offering me a ride or varying meanings, many times with a price thrown out also. how kind. But in general this was a very safe place, and I never heard of a foreign woman being attacked (otherwise I wouldnt have walked home all those times!!!) In the classroom there were moments when I could tell that the older businessmen didnt want to listen to me cause I was a woman, but this was not the norm.

As far as dating in Asia, how do I put this politely? Personally, Asian men (and yes, I am generalizing, but very safely so on this point) have never appealed to me. and as such, I never dated a local in either country. Also personally I think Asian woman are more attractive than Asian men, thus the drastic diff in that coupling. (although I am sure Asian men not wanting to be with an independent foreign woman would play a role in this as well).

Steph

[Extraordinary Rendition]

[travelgoddess]

[Extraordinary Rendition]

Travel goddess, I didn't give as informative an answer to the OP as I could? My answer was not thoughtful and serious, except for a light-hearted comment (albeit blunt, and reflective of a prevalent reality) initially? I didn't say that I was answering because it seemed that others (obviously including women) weren't? Your post was not vague and suggestive of some "hidden truth"?

Delicate sensibilities, a lack of recognition of other perspectives, and many western women's lack of a sense of humor, play a large role in why the tourist trade in Pattaya, and elsewhere in Thailand and southeast Asia, increasingly comprises young western men, and why Thai-western marriages are on the rise.

I read not very long ago that the population of Australia would be decreasing if not for immigration. It would be an interesting sociological study to examine the reasons for this, but anecdotal evidence from Australian men offers a very plausible explanation. And it doesn't have to do with their attitudes toward women. It takes no leap of the imagination to suspect that Australia is not very different from other western countries in this respect.

[Travels]

Umm, Can I step in here?

I would like to ask very nicely if we could bring this back to a civil discussion about the treatment of Western women in Asia.

First off, all comments have been great.

ER, your first post was thoughtful, and the joke about "by the hour" didn't offend me, it made me laugh. Also the pun about paying them more to "hold onto them" was hilarious. I was assuming you were joking and not degrading women, I hope I was right.

773, your post was great, I think it would be awful to have the Taiwanese calling me fat all the time! But it would be much easier to realize that this is just the culture and not personal!

Glenski, I checked out that website and it looks great! I'm thinking about buying the book.

Roset, your personal experience was a great addition. It seems that a lot of women say similar things.

Travelgoddess, your post was excellent, I'd love to have the chance to sit down with you for a beer (or nonalcoholic beverage) and talk about your experiences, it would be fascinating. I'm sure that's not possible though since I'm in Germany and your probably in Asia.

And lastly, as much as I appreciated your earlier posts, ER, I really DIDN'T APPRECIATE the fact that you implied that Western men choose Eastern women because western women are horrible and have no sense of humor, etc. That's just untrue and inappropriate. Can you just put a lid on that, because there's sure to be a lot of women who read this thread that get offended.

Okay, can we please shift back to the earlier topic? I have enjoyed reading different people's experiences and look forward (hopefully) to more stories. Thank you!

[Extraordinary Rendition]

OP, just for the record, I didn't write that I presume employers in Thailand pay women better, I wrote "treat". I wouldn't assume that the pay is any better, but I would assume that the working conditions are kept as pleasant as possible, and minor transgressions (absence from work, etc.) would be overlooked rather than any discipline meted out. But this is only conjecture; a wise employer would do that. Are most, or even many, Thai employers wise? I can't say, as all of my managers in Thailand were westerners. Also just for the record, I stand behind my last post, despite my evidence being only anecdotal.

It's reflective of the current worldwide (at least the English-speaking world) atmosphere of political correctness, and a shame, that you felt the need to qualify your comment about having a beer with the "or"...

[travelgoddess]

Travels,
If you would like anymore info, please feel to pm me or email me at dstephfuccio (at) yahoo.com

I will not comment further on the recent comments for a number of reasons.

Steph