Job Discussion Forums

[Taishan]

I've noticed recently that there seem to be more and more volunteers in wealthier areas of China, such as Shandong.
One charity even requiring the volunteers to pay for everything and pay per month of their visit!
The reason why I'm concerned, is that I wish to be here long term, it's difficult to negotiate a contract with other foriegners willing to work for no or little money! As far as I'm concerned: can afford to pay=should pay.
The Chinese business people that run language schools must be rubbing their hands seeing dollar signs$$$$$$$$$.
The volunteers aren't bad people, they are some of the nicest here (if they're not fundamentalist christians), I don't blame them I blame these charities for serious lack of research. Nor do I think that there is no scope for volunteer work there are probably thousands of schools that really do need a volunteer. These places are in rural areas of provences in North East and Western China, possibly they can't afford chalk, not in places such as Qingdao or Yantai!!!

[sojourner]

Most reputable volunteer organisations (eg Australia's CAA and the UK's OVA) usually pay for their volunteers' airfares,pay a salary,arrange accommodation,cover essential settling-in costs,etc.These organisations,I believe,also investigate the schools they send their people too - thus,it is very unlikely that they would send volunteers to schools and other institutions that could well pay market rates of pay.

However,I have heard that some colleges in China do deal with certain church-based groups in the West in order to provide teachers at rates of pay well below what most ESL teachers would accept.Probably a lot of those colleges could well afford to pay their teachers market rates of pay.

Yes,I agree - this is a VERY worrying situation.

Peter

[dan]

very worrisome, indeed. what with the vast amount of un(der)qualified teachers deluging the market, it appears that legit teachers now have a 2nd variable to account for in wage negotiations. lovely.

[kimo]

One question I have in this regard is:

In the name of business at a lower cost is the government here willing to overlook the agenda of some of these people?

I'll have to look at my contract again, but I thought it forbid certain activities.

[Changjiang]

I'm becoming concerned as well. I recently met some other foriegn teachers from the city near my town, and although the topic never came up, I more than half suspect they're evangelical and working here as "volunteers".

So not only will they be driving down the local price of FE's, but there is the risk of being tarred with the same brush if they get busted. I know Wuzhou City in Guangxi Province deported a couple of evangelicals a number of years ago and the university and high schools still remain "off limits" to all foriegn teachers today.

I'm sure in the bigger centers that last point isn't as threatening, but nobody needs trouble from the PSB.

Any volunteers/evangelicals care to weigh in on this? I'd be interested in hearing your views...

[Minhang Oz]

With my first visit in early '97 I came with an Australian semi-government organisation. They found the college, negotiated a 12 hour teaching week, provided pre-departure and in country training and annual meetings. They also covered airfare, stopover hotels, top medical cover, relocation allowance etc. The school itself paid me their standard FT salary, including holiday pay; pretty low back then, but plenty to live royally on and travel during summer.
It was a good way to go for a "newbie" at that time, so I'd recommend it provided it's a government agency or a reputable NGO. There were some evangalists [some foundation, Amity ring a bell?] at the Teachers College where I spent 3 weeks of in country training.

[sojourner]

Merely because an organisation is church-based or Christian does not necessarily mean that their main objective is prosletying (sp?).For the overseas aid organisations run by the mainline churches,they are fully aware of the need not to break the law or to upset local sensitivities. The volunteers of such organisations,one would imagine, would be more concerned to practice 'practical Christianity',eg to help a local community to develop (eg teach English) rather than to 'witness the Word' or biblebash.

Minhang Oz referred to an organisation called Amity.I have come across reference to this organisation before.It is meant to be a Christian aid organisation,but I don't think that it is controlled by the hierarchy of any of the mainline churches.It managers,I believe,are members of mainline churches,but the organisation appears to be quite independent.(It could have been set up under some kind of trust - does anyone else know ?).Anyway,this organisation does send volunteers to China to teach in govt institutions,eg schools,teachers colleges,etc.The organisation is reputed to take good care of their volunteers ,eg airfares, assistance with teaching problems,counselling,settling-in assistance,etc .They also,it appears,don't go in for blatant evangelising - just a practical form of Christian witnessing such as being a considerate,efficient teacher.BUT,I have heard that the salaries paid to their volunteers are considerably below than what other ESL teachers are paid - this is,I'd imagine, what is of concern to all of us - surely,the govt schools/colleges are able to pay their teachers market rates of pay ? - maybe if the principals/college managers can pay below market rates,then it might look good in the eyes of their provincial govt,or whatever. In any case,we are now facing more competition:not just from the un(der) qualified teachers,but now from the volunteers.

Those teachers who are engaged in blatant evangelising might come here under the guise of volunteers of reputable church-based or secular aid organisations,OR they can come as normal ESL teachers.Some fundamentalist/pentecostal groups are involved in training their members in ESL teaching so that they can get jobs in the developing world.Admitedly,a lot of them have their eyes set on the Middle East (eg Iraq) - but I'd imagine that there would be a few who are interested in China,inspired by romantic stories about the 'underground church'.As someone else has mentioned on this thread,the arrest of those evangelists could tarnish the rest of us who are working in the same local area.

Regards,

Peter

[sojourner]

Merely because an organisation is church-based or Christian does not necessarily mean that their main objective is prosletying (sp?).For the overseas aid organisations run by the mainline churches,they are fully aware of the need not to break the law or to upset local sensitivities. The volunteers of such organisations,one would imagine, would be more concerned to practice 'practical Christianity',eg to help a local community to develop (eg teach English) rather than to 'witness the Word' or biblebash.

Minhang Oz referred to an organisation called Amity.I have come across reference to this organisation before.It is meant to be a Christian aid organisation,but I don't think that it is controlled by the hierarchy of any of the mainline churches.It managers,I believe,are members of mainline churches,but the organisation appears to be quite independent.(It could have been set up under some kind of trust - does anyone else know ?).Anyway,this organisation does send volunteers to China to teach in govt institutions,eg schools,teachers colleges,etc.The organisation is reputed to take good care of their volunteers ,eg airfares, assistance with teaching problems,counselling,settling-in assistance,etc .They also,it appears,don't go in for blatant evangelising - just a practical form of Christian witnessing such as being a considerate,efficient teacher.BUT,I have heard that the salaries paid to their volunteers are considerably below than what other ESL teachers are paid - this is,I'd imagine, what is of concern to all of us - surely,the govt schools/colleges are able to pay their teachers market rates of pay ? - maybe if the principals/college managers can pay below market rates,then it might look good in the eyes of their provincial govt,or whatever. In any case,we are now facing more competition:not just from the un(der) qualified teachers,but now from the volunteers.

Those teachers who are engaged in blatant evangelising might come here under the guise of volunteers of reputable church-based or secular aid organisations,OR they can come as normal ESL teachers.Some fundamentalist/pentecostal groups are involved in training their members in ESL teaching so that they can get jobs in the developing world.Admitedly,a lot of them have their eyes set on the Middle East (eg Iraq) - but I'd imagine that there would be a few who are interested in China,inspired by romantic stories about the 'underground church'.As someone else has mentioned on this thread,the arrest of those evangelists could tarnish the reputation of those of us who may happen to be working in the same institution,or merely in the same local area.

Regards,

Peter

[struelle]

[Roger]

I think missionary work and volunteering are two different types of involvement.
You do meet unsavoury proselytisers even among independent expat teachers who came here for the money. I wonder how they can reconcile their goal of making money in what essentially is a third-world country, with their more altruistic aim of converting Chinese to Christianity (or bringing them the light of spirituality).
On the other hand, ther are volunteers, both with and without degree, who allow themselves to be enslaved by Chinese masters. This is rerehensible. I am not even opposed to it on account of it possibly driving down my own income; I am against it because of the loss of dignity that we all suffer.
There is a private boarding school called Country Garden School that is even mentioned in MEGATRENDS ASIA (John Naisbitt). According to a KOREA TIME article cited in the book, people pay US$ 21'350 in tuition fees PER ANNUM (back in 1997!); I do not know if this was true then, but I do know that these days the school does charge somewhere around RMB 30'000 per annum.
Whatever the truth - I personally met several volunteer teachers that worked at this private business for free. The question is: if CHinese parents can scrape together RMB 30'000 in tuition fees per child and per year, then the school should be able to pay a handsome salary to its foreign slaves.
However, I also met several girls working at CGS that had their salary cut in half, with the threat hanging over their heads that if they could not accept this they would have to find another job.

[Minhang Oz]

Let's remember that to volunteer means to offer to do something, but not necessarily without pay. Other volunteers I met during my stint were in the same situation as myself: the Japanese variety were on a higher salary than any other FTs, as they were paid by their government [blood money?] So I think it's unpaid voluntary work that we're objecting to. And realistically, what employer - or anyone for that matter - is going to pay for what they can get for free?

[dishuiguanyin]

Yes, I did work for them (1997-2000)

1. The Amity Foundation or ai de ji jin hui is a Chinese NGO, started in 1985 by the Chinese Protestant Church (Three-Self Patriotic Church). It is completely run by Chinese Christians - the board of directors are all highly repected and influential Chinese Christians.
http://www.amityfoundation.org/engindex.html

2. Amity works in several areas: rural development, medical and health, education, social welfare, blindness prevention and teatment and relief work.

3. Relevant to this thread would be the Foreign Teachers Program, which has been in operation since 1985. The following details are given to you from memory, and that memory is 3 years old, so they are for general information only - don't take them as gospel.

a Qualifications
Foreign teachers are recruited through main-stream churches in Europe, North America, Oceania and Asia.
All foreign teachers must have the relevant qualifications to teach EFL in their home country. For example, British teachers must hold a CELTA as a minimum, though Amity would prefer them to have a diploma/Masters in EFL if at all possible.
Foreign teachers must attend a one month orientation course in China before moving to their posting.

b Salary and conditions
AMITY provides: return air-fare, expenses for orientation course and two conferences per teaching year, medical and health insurance, monthly US$ allowance (it used to be 250$/month - don't know if it's changed recently), resettlement payment at the end of a two-year contract.
SCHOOL/COLLEGE provides: 2000RMB/month salary, twice-yearly holiday travel allowance, decent accomodation (no bills for utilities, acommodation standards are rigourosly enforced by regular Amity inspections), Z visa, foreign expert's card, and any other necessary documentation.
TEACHERS are expected to: teach up to, but no more than, 16 contact hours per week, perform professionally in the classroom (during my term with Amity, one teacher was sacked after her teaching standards were properly investigated and found to be wanting), not to take any leaves of absence during term-time (unless there is a medical emergency).

c Evangelism
Strictly forbidden. During the orientation course all foreign teachers have China's laws for foreign experts throughly explained to them. They are encouraged to see their teaching and presence in China as being their sole task. They are also encouraged to attend services in their local Chinese church (as normal congregational members) to show that Chinese Christians are accepted as members of the worldwide Christian community.

d Most relevant DO AMITY TEACHERS MAKE LIFE HARDER FOR INDEPENDENT TEACHERS?

- Amity aims to send its teachers to two or three year teachers colleges in poorer provinces and areas which could not otherwise afford foreign teachers.
- However, as we all know, China is developing and changing rapidly. When Amity first began their program, many colleges in Zhejiang province could not find/afford their own foreign teachers. When I arrived in 1997, obviously, Zhejiang was highly developed, and thus, Amity were in the process of moving their teachers out of this province towards the interior (Jiangxi, Anhui, etc).
In 2001, Amity received permission to begin to send teachers to the poorer provinces in the North and West (Inner Mongolia etc). I believe that they are currently focusing on moving more and more of their 200 foreign teachers in this direction.

The teacher training college in our small city currently employs two Amity teachers and two independents. Amity had had a 15 year relationship with this college before said college felt confident enough to find and employ independent teachers.

I feel that the independent teachers have profitted from Amity's relationship with the college because:
- They were automatically provided with the same high level of accomodation that the Amity teachers receive (nicely-decorated and furnished flats, not massive, but decent for a single-person, no bills for utilities, all mod-cons - they don't get a computer, but do have hot-running water from their kitchen taps, which I've never managed to get).
- The college are under the impression that no foreign teacher should ever be asked to teach more than 16 hours/week.
- The college are fully aware of, and prepared to provide all the necessary documentation for a foreign teacher.
- The college are also aware that Amity pays an extra allowance to its teachers, thus they knew that no independent teacher would work for only 2000RMB/month and offered a reasonable salary (sorry, I don't know the exact figure, but no one gets fantastic pay here!).

I feel that the independent teachers have suffered from Amity's relationship with the college because:
- The college have never had to write their own contract with foreign teachers, and were thus, unaware of various other things which should be considered as standard (return air-fare at the end of the contract for example). The last I heard, a few weeks ago, this problem was still not resolved for the independent teachers.

Overall, I definitely feel that the Amity Foundation's work is positive for China as a whole, and that it doesn't harm in any major way the prospects of independent foreign teachers.
The only complaint I would have is that, while they are aware that many of their teachers are in provinces which are now considered to be rich enough not to need subsidised foreign teachers, it can take several years for them to move out of a province and into the more needy areas. Their explanation for this is that they have to wait for official approval from all the relevant education authorities before they are allowed to move into new schools/colleges and that they are reluctant to sever relations from schools/colleges with whom they have had excellent and long-term (10-15 year) partnerships.

Having said that, as I admitted right at the start, I am biased. Amity were, and, according to my friends, still are, a fantastic organisation to work for. In my experience, they do their utmost to make being a foreign teacher in China easy, safe, fulfilling and highly enjoyable - for the teachers, the schools/colleges and for the students.

[Minhang Oz]

The above poster's experienxe is consistent with my own, in that of the group of seven that I arrived with, all went to smaller or remote cities where we were the primary FT presence. I don't think our few thousand a month was stealing jobs or driving down wages. There are still parts of the country that cannot get FTs; properly run volunteer programs help to fill that gap. My experience was nothing but positive. I had a hard time readjusting to 8 hours a day of noisy, demanding Australian teenagers.

[arioch36]

In my opinion, Amity is more of a truly volunteer organization, at least in theory, and hopefully in practice. You know you are not going to be teaching in modern Shanghai. But you also know that you will have true support wherever you go. As opposed to a recruiter like ACCIF or YAKUP. So I don't think such groups are really keeping wages down in Inner Mongolia.

Then there are some "Christian" groups such as ELIC or others. The foreign teachers in these groups are supposed to be Christian, but it is stressed very heavily that they are not to be teaching and preaching in the classroom. What a teacher talks about on the public street corner at weekend english corner is entirely, entirely up to them. There wages are usually a little lower then market.

But these teachers also have full support. The organization usually have a long term committment with particular schools. The teacher knows that the school is legal and will treat them as promised. Things such as emergency support are available, usually.

I do feel such organizations slightly efect the pay scale, but for the school, the organization, and especially the first time teacher, it seems to be a win-win-win proposition. Don't see how any one can complain if a teacher sacrifices a little money in return for security.

Some individual churches ( usually) support "secret" teachers who will work as a volunteer, maybe making the minimum. Out of the 60 plus christians I have met in China, I only met one like this who only did it for one year.. The truth is most legit schools wouldn't accept someone willing to work for 2,200. I mean, how many of you really know many or any people like this? Personally I think it is more of a myth these days, a convenient crutch for those who wish to attack Christianity.

Then, of course, you have the flakes. In America you have the guy who goes to all the footbal games (instead of going to church) and holds up the " John3:13" signs (Americans probably know what I mean, never seen this at an english fottball game), or the ex porn star who is now stripping for Christ. Personally I believe these people are messed up about Christianity, based on what the bible teaches. Of course, they don't think so. Personally I have never met anyone in China like this, although I am sure they exist.

Personally, I have complete confidence in God, I am often a bad christian. I will occassionally talk about god in class, because
1) God is a huge part of American and western culture
2) It is who I am, and to hide who I am would not be keeping faith with my students. I want my students to know my biases.
3) To me proselytizing in the classroom is 100% wrong. If I had a kid in class, I wouldn't want a teacher teaching him religion. That's what Sunday school is for.
4) I will not run or supervise a church of Chinese people, this seems to be clearly against the law and intent of China. Other then that, I am open to say my beliefs in my home, on the street corner.
5) I do not accept the assertion of some on this board that say I am a hypocrite if I insist on a decent salary

[struelle]

[quote="dishuiguanyin"]Yes, I did work for them (1997-2000)