Job Discussion Forums

[kanzis_slave]

I was recently looking at payscales and benefits for teaching jobs in Yunnan/Kunming. I was disappointed to hear from a number of sources that CELTA certifications made little (if any) difference in regard to pay and benefits in local schools.

So how does this match up to the rest of China? Does having a CELTA make much difference in regard to payscale and benefits (vs. having only a BA and a little teaching experience)?

Don't get me wrong--I understand the practical benefits of taking a CELTA class. I just want to make sure I have an accurate impression of the other ramifications.

[Anda]

You are kidding someone! I have my 110 class hours bit of paper and have had it since about 1993. It helps when applying for a job to get the job over others that don't have it if there is competition for the job full stop.

In regard to actual teaching it can have some value or be a hindrance depending one where you take the course; meaning who actually teachers you. Most of the University idiots that teach these courses have never taught overseas period.

If you want my bit of advice I say do it (meaning whatever they offer) with the British Council as this crowd is all over the world and mostly have real teachers and you might open the door to some better than average jobs.



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[kanzis_slave]

Sorry--I think I've been misunderstood. Maybe its a brittish english vs american english thing. Took me a few read-throughs to figure out your angle!

By "benefits" I mean better housing, perks, bonuses, financial and tangible incentives/rewards -- not "will it make me a better teacher." I understand the latter pretty well already. It's the "perks" I'm uncertain about.

[Anda]

Read carefully:

"It helps when applying for a job to get the job over others that don't have it if there is competition for the job full stop."

This means you get none of the following;

"I mean better housing, perks, bonuses, financial and tangible incentives/rewards --"

English teaching experience at schools and universities of over two years gets you a better pay rate at government places etc. Having a master's degree sometimes gets you a little more. But an English teaching certificate you have to be kidding.

[China.Pete]

The basic information Anda gave is perfectly accurate. Aside from any teacher-training value, there are currently few tangible benefits to getting a TEFL certificate in China, other than maybe getting a job over someone who doesn't have one. But if the TEFL market in China should become more professionalized in the future, or you end up teaching in other countries, it could possibly be more beneficial for you long-term.

[11:59]

[Anda]

Ah, but to quote you 11:59 however it would seem that specialized spelling lessons are a waste of time and do not make a teacher. I meant to say " these" courses not there or their courses. So I would consider my "there" and your "their" to both be wrong.

"Quite. I think the real reason Western countries enforce such policies is simply that the study you refer to, and other training, requires teachers, facilitators, trainers, co-ordinators, and administrative staff, and so on. It's just jobs for the boys. There is no real benefit to be had from education and specialised training � and certainly nothing is gained from experience. Skills relevant to teaching cannot be taught and cannot be honed through practice. Besides, as the old adage goes, 'I once met a guy/girl who had a Ph.D. in Education no less and who was a terrible teacher, and I met a guy/girl without so much as a GCSE and who was an excellent teacher.' This is definitive, irrefutable proof that both education and training are not only unnecessary, but in fact can be deleterious to both teachers and students alike."

[cj750s]

Good post Anda...

[vikuk]

[eslstudies]

[11:59]

To be quite honest, Anda, I find it a tad worrying (if not downright disturbing) that as a putative English teacher you fail to recognise satire when you encounter it.

[arioch36]

Well, anyways, if you girls are finished your cat fight, 95% percent of the time, CELTA in CHina is useful as toilet paper in a pinch I guess, whe it comes to a job or benefits. However, sometimes people with a TEFL cert try to bargain for more... bargaining is successful in China, cert or no cert

Will a CELTA help your teaching ... depends on the person's experience.
All these being equal, experience and education help a lot. 30 y/0 and older makes a much better teacher in China, most runners are quite young. For someone who has never taught or prepared for a class, any experience is good. Teaching CPR or swimming offers valuable experience. Life experiences offer valuable experience.
I don't get involved in the CELTA versus other certs debate any more. Based on many friends and aquaintances, most certs are of minimal value, but give help to a person with minimal english skills, who is unsure of his grammar, etc.
the CELTA is very unhelpful in preparing for the Chinese teaching experience
Their our certs this can affect ewe positvely that are held in China, a better option

[Kram]

CELTA... I love their marketing... Only CELTA counts... Yeah, well comparing CELTA (or equivalent) �teacher� training to a class of 12 to 20 motivated, adult Europeans to 'teaching' in China still makes me laugh...

As to the OP�s question... No...In my experience, a CELTA doesn�t affect pay and/or benefits. However, the province I�m in requires a degree + �recognised� TESOL/TEFEL/EFL (or whatever is currently politically correct) certificate, unless your degree is education or you have a post grad qualification.

Even as this is a province minimum.... It�s China, and mate, it�s not what you have � it�s who you know. Either way, a CELTA (or equivalent) just makes it easier for your school to get your Z (less guanxi payback) and gives you an advantage over competition for the same gig.

[eslstudies]

[Surfdude18]