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They are not driven
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: They are not driven Reply with quote

Saudi women make video protest

Ms Huwaider joins the main highway after driving in her compound
(see photo at the link below, please.)

Saudi women's rights activists have posted on the web a video of a woman at the wheel of her car, in protest at the ban on female drivers in the kingdom.
Wajeha Huwaider talks of the injustice of the ban and calls for its abolition as she drives calmly along a highway.
She says the film was posted to mark International Women's Day. Thousands have viewed it on the YouTube website.
The last such public show of dissent was in 1990 when dozens of women were arrested for circling Riyadh in cars.
Last year, Ms Huwaider and other activists circulated a petition which was sent to King Abdullah urging him to lift the ban.
In the three-minute clip, she at first drives around a residential compound where she notes that women are allowed to drive because it is not a public road.

But about halfway through, without comment, she executes a left turn onto the main highway and proceeds to drive along it in defiance of Saudi law.

"Many women in this society are able to drive cars, and many of our male relatives don't mind us driving," she says in Arabic.

"I hope that by next year's International Woman's Day, this ban on us will be lifted," she concludes.

In February, two leading Islamic scholars said there was no reason to continue the ban.
However, many conservatives continue to resist reform, arguing it would lead to mingling of the sexes which is banned under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic Law.
The 1990 protest, coming at the height of the Gulf crisis when US forces had come to defend Saudi Arabia, was followed by a crackdown on the women drivers and their passengers.
The women were jailed for one day, their passports confiscated, and many lost their jobs.
King Abdullah has in the past said that he thought a day would eventually come when Saudi women were allowed to drive.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7159077.stm
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, John, I think the Saudi women deserve the right to press with their foot on the accelerator and reach the speed limit of 200 kM/h as any women in the world! Laughing

But, the problem is, do you think the rate of car accidents will increase or decrease if the ban on women driving is lifted in the magic kingdom??

Wait and see, I have heard rumours that Uncle Bandar is planning to lift the ban late 2008!!!
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:01 pm    Post subject: Crash Test Dummies Reply with quote

Dear 007,
Well, as for the rate of car accidents increasing or decreasing, it only stands to reason that more drivers would equal more accidents.
However, if these USA statistics are any indication:


"Men are more than twice as likely to die in a car crash than women, consider the yearly statistics shown below. In fact, studies have shoiwn as many as 73 percent of all people killed in car accidents are male. Since record keeping began: male fatalities significantly outweigh female fatalities. However men and women do not drive the same number of miles under the same conditions- men do about 60-65% more driving than women. Studies show that woman take shorter trips and female drivers have a greater number of minor crashes than do men. However men are still 70% more likely to be in a serious crash.

Car Crash Stats:
Persons Killed, by Sex: Male, Female in 2006
Male Drivers Killed Female Drivers Killed
29,722 12,747

Total Both Sexes: 42,469
173 Drivers Unknown Sex Not Included

What accounts for this disparity?

Some researchers believe the explanation is to be found hormones related to aggessiveness, others put more emphasis on data such as the measurably greater alcohol use among men while driving."

Of course, in the Kingdom, as we all know, alcohol is prohibited.
Regards,
John
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sheikh radlinrol



Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John
Enjoyed your post. I'm pleased for the Saudi girls. Good for them!
Uncle Bond should realise that the ladies drive better than we guys and that the Saudi roads will be safer once they take the wheel.
I actually did see a girl driving once just outside Riyadh, in the Dirab area.
Abaya and pick-up!
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that it is the fascination of the media on the outside concerning this topic that has slowed the implementation.

VS
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:35 am    Post subject: They're driving us crazy Reply with quote

Dear veiledsentiments,
While the outside media's fascination may have made some contribution, I'd say the main reason was mentioned in the article":

"However, many conservatives continue to resist reform, arguing it would lead to mingling of the sexes which is banned under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic Law."

In my opinion, basically it's fear. Let those women drive and next thing you know ____________________ (fill in the blank with different fears for different men.)

Regards,
John
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, true... but I do feel that the constant outside pressure to change this merely gets their back up and makes it seem that it comes from outsiders rather than from within.

VS
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MixtecaMike



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a very trustworthy source (my students) I have it that the number of accidents will rise sharply if women can drive, as the male drivers will be too busy looking at the females and not watching the road.
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This talk about the whether or not there will be a rise in the rate of accidents is rediculous!
This is a basic human rights issue and issue of Saudi women not allowed to drive should not be based upon any possible future accident rates...this a is a seperate issue which would be dealt with after women are allowed to drive...of course with anything new there will be a period of adjustment...In the long term, I am sure most adult men will adjust to seeing Saudi women driving. This is just a silly attempt to squash women's rights... to control power over women's lives.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon both Veiled and John are wrong. The reason for the ban is the overwhelming opposition of the majority of Saudi males. Pure prejudice, but bring the suggestion up to an otherwise perfectly reasonable class of young Saudis and watch the reaction.

The solution is simple. Saudiize the taxi drivers (needs doing anyway because of unemployment amongst Saudi males, and officially has been policy since the mid-nineties, but stalled because of the wasta of owners of limousine companies). For a Saudi choosing between his wife or sister driving or being driven by another Saudi male is a no-brainer.
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be quite, I think I see a Saudi woman driving a car somewhere here ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pRJkJ6B6E

It seesm to me she is driving in the compound somewhere in the eastern region were women are allowed to drive.

BTW, Uncle Bandar proposed that Wajiha Huwaidar should be nominated for the Abu Jahl annual award! Laughing
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The solution is simple. Saudiize the taxi drivers [...]. For a Saudi choosing between his wife or sister driving or being driven by another Saudi male is a no-brainer.


1) How would that change anything? Even now, taxis DO exist, so still, "For a Saudi choosing between his wife or sister driving or being driven by another male is a no-brainer."

2) What about private drivers? Should they be 'Saudized' too? ANY Saudi male would rather have a foreign private driver than a Saudi one. Actually, most Saudi families would refuse to keep Saudi private drivers if it came down to it, and would forbid their women from being driven around by Saudi private drivers.

3) Saudi women prefer foreign taxi drivers to Saudi ones. IN FACT, they refuse to ride with Saudi taxi drivers.

I don't see what Saudizing taxi drivers is supposed to do for women. It will not make available any new facility or right for women. On the contrary, it would reduce the number of Saudi women taking taxis.
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cmp45



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Jones wrote:

The solution is simple. Saudiize the taxi drivers (needs doing anyway because of unemployment amongst Saudi males, and officially has been policy since the mid-nineties, but stalled because of the wasta of owners of limousine companies). For a Saudi choosing between his wife or sister driving or being driven by another Saudi male is a no-brainer.


I also wonder what this will solve...nothing in my estimate...have you ever had a Saudi taxi driver? They make terrible taxi drivers...all the ones that I have encountered always try to over charge. They are arrogant and refuse to take you if they think it is someplace they do not want to go.
I don't see how any Saudi woman would want another Saudi male stranger driving ...Saudi men are extremely protective ...even more so from each other than foreign drivers; besides this is just skirting the main issue...women should be allowed to drive ...period...there are no real legitimate excuses for them not to; just lame ones that serve to restrict their movements
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Fear not? Reply with quote

Dear Stephen,

"I reckon both Veiled and John are wrong. The reason for the ban is the overwhelming opposition of the majority of Saudi males. Pure prejudice, but bring the suggestion up to an otherwise perfectly reasonable class of young Saudis and watch the reaction."

Well. first of all, I'd say there's more than one reason. Second, what causes the "overwhelming opposition of the majority of Saudi males? You say "prejudice", while I say "fear."

and your solution:

"Saudiize the taxi drivers"

would seem, I'd say, to support the "fear" motivation.


"For a Saudi choosing between his wife or sister driving or being driven by another Saudi male is a no-brainer."


Saudi males would fear their wives, sisters being driven by another Saudi male even more than they would fear the possible consequences of allowing women to drive.

Regards,
John
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually agree with Stephen that having all the taxi drivers be Saudi would work in favor of the change. Having the women drive themselves would suddenly be the lesser of two evils. Laughing

But I don't think this idea negates what I said about outside interference.

VS
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