Job Discussion Forums

angus88 · Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 1 Location: UK

Hullo
I'm thinking of applying to Deborah's Kindergarten in HK. I know that they have a very attractive holiday allowance (6-8 weeks) but am I right in thinking that you can only take them off during official school holidays? I have a friend who wants to visit me in HK and I assume I would not be able to take time off to entertain them. They're thinking of booking their ticket now AFTER easter....cheers

anninhk · Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 284

First of all it seems a very strange question as you haven't actually applied for the job or even been offered it. I presume you must think you will automatically get the job.
If you are a teacher you will know that your holidays coincide with the holidays that the children get. It isn't usually possible to get holidays at other times considering that we get Christmas, Easter and in Hong Kong, Chinese New Year.
I wouldn't suggest you talk about the holidays when applying for the job - doesn't give the right idea about your commitment to the school somehow!

Dipso · Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 194 Location: England

The holidays at Deborah are set - you can't take time off when you please. You would probably get time off at Christmas, Chinese New Year, Easter and in the summer, plus national holidays.

11:59 · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:

What is a 'holiday allowance', and how is 6-8 weeks 'attractive'?

There are basically six good reasons to be a teacher in HK: June, July, August, Christmas, Chinese New Year, & Easter. Most have around 3 or 4 months off a year, and those of us in university posts have around 5 months, fully paid of course. Makes one wonder why on Earth anyone would ever teach anywhere else, really.

sm · Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 36 Location: UK

Sorry to say this angus88 but is this not a dumb question? surely any teacher would know that that's not possible and even if you are new to this industry common-sense goes a long way!

kowlooner · Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 230 Location: HK, BCC (former)

Gotta thank dipso (and annie) for actually answering the question! Not sure if it's really that dumb a question, sm, since it's certainly not unheard of for school teachers to request (and get) leave during the regular school year. And annie, don't be too hard on the guy! Though he - and especially his friend / friends - may be overly optimistic about employment, it wasn't an unreasonable exploratory question.

11:59 · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject:

Is that official, Kowlooner? Are you decreeing that?

No problem! I'm sure someone else will be more than happy to cover for her while she goes gallivanting off around town.

kowlooner · Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 230 Location: HK, BCC (former)

What are you on about, 59? No decrees, no promises, but just a statement of fact, that it's "certainly not unheard of for school teachers to request (and get) leave during the regular school year."

11:59 · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject:

Let us see if you can find a single other person who agrees with you. No one above seems to.

Kootvela · Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 513 Location: Lithuania

I'm sure it is possible to arrange a leave with a several week notice. That's called 'leave on own expence' or something like that, usually entitled to women with small children, single parent family and some other cases. All this should be set in the civil or labout laws. Yes, I've taken such a leave, no, it wasn't in Hong Kong but for this one must know laws.

BCinHK · Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Hong Kong

The EDB NET contract states that "special leave with pay for a maximum of 2 days per school year may be granted for the NET to attend to urgent private affairs of grave importance".

While some principals only allow this leave to be used for visiting critically ill parents/siblings, funerals, or the NET's own wedding, others have allowed NETs to use it for a variety of purposes such as to take university exams, to extend a 'long' holiday (Christmas, CNY, Easter), or to have time with visiting family or friends.

11:59 · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:15 am Post subject:

Kootvela, do you have any experience of HK at all? To judge from your na�ve posts I have to guess you have none whatsoever. Indeed, I am willing to bet you do not have any experience of working in Asia at all. Things are quite different here on the shop floor, as it were, to up there in the Baltic, especially as regards an employee's rights. Besides, it is all academic as it seems to be the case that the OP is pretty much stating that she wants to apply for the holiday in tandem with her initial application for the job. Given the highly competitive state of affairs here I do not think that is the sort of expectation/demand that will result in her application being placed at the top of the pile!

BC in HK, how is an EMB/EDB NET contract relevant to (the privately owned) Deborah's Kindergarten?

BCinHK · Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Hong Kong

11:59 · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:01 am Post subject:

Yes, but last time I checked teachers at Deborah's Kindergarten were not EDB NETs. So, therefore (and it really pains me to have to spell it out for you like this), an EDB NET contract is of no relevance whatsoever.

11:59 · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:20 am Post subject:

Kootvela, it is quite obviously the case (to my mind, at least) that the situation on the ground here in HK as regards an employee's rights and your perception of those rights (or, more accurately, as you do not have any experience to speak of in the SAR of HK, your mere assumptions regarding such rights) are clearly at odds with one another. Your reference to civil and 'labout' (or labour) laws are evidence enough for this conclusion. Perhaps some relevant background will help you place your uninformed assumptions into an appropriate context.

Perhaps you are not aware but HK is arguably second to only KSA when it comes to the sheer degree of prevailing conservatism in the workplace, and indeed in life in general. If you so wish I can point you in the direction of websites which detail some quite (in)famous cases of flagrant and blatant misuse of power by employers (and/or the total absence of any relevant laws), or if you want I can actually introduce you to some of the parties involved.

There is, for example, a quite interesting case of a NET who was dismissed from his post as, believe it or not (and most did not at first), he appeared in a short film (and some promotional photographs) with some scantily-dressed females (oh, shock horror!). The chap is famous for running some support group for NETs demanding more housing allowance, or something. There is another case where a NET was sacked from his NET post after he took part in the school's annual swimming gala. The 'problem' (at least from the point of view of the school principal and the parents) was that he had a small rose tattoo on his shoulder! Apparently, it is not appropriate for teachers (viz., upstanding members of the community) to bear tattoos. Now, if it had been a full Yakuza-style bodysuit tattoo complete with naked women, samurai swords and dragons perhaps I could understand � having seen such bodysuits for myself both in Japan and China I can say they do indeed have a message and it is 'Beware! Anti-Social Element'! But as it was, the tattoo was but 1cm in diameter and not all too much longer.

With such events in mind (and I can truly list many, many more if you so desire) you may want to at least reconsider your assumption that teachers/employees can take time off willy-nilly during term time (even if it is with 'a several week notice') and/or are protected by civil or labour laws (to cite but one further, relevant example, the proposed so-called 'anti-racism' law of HK was recently condemned by many international bodies as being inherently racist). It does not matter one iota whether it is as the teacher's own 'expence' (or, expense) or not.

In terms of underlying psychology, I find it nothing short of fascinating that those who have never even worked in HK can attempt to instruct those who are currently here (and who have been here for quite some time) about the place. I just love that 'I am sure that' expression of yours, Kootvela, it really speaks volumes about your knowledge of HK (or the lack thereof). There is no shortage of things newcomers to HK were 'sure' of, but which were soon tossed to the wind when the hard reality of the place hit them full-on between the eyes.